The name of the conference is: (Have) Danda (Will Travel)
Text 128482 (16 lines)
From: Punya Palaka
(das) BVS (Prague - CZ)
Date: 11-Apr-95 09:45
SST
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [253],
AC
Bhaktivaibhava Swami [1072] (received:
14-Apr-95 10:16),
Brahma
Muhurta (das) HKS (NE BBT) [15523]
(received: 14-Apr-95 16:36)
Subject: Mr.Havel
------------------------------------------------------------
· often presents interesting ideas. In his recent speech in Australia he wondered why there’s so much fighting in such a small world and said something like, “The solution is not to bet on atheistic civilization... We should search for what we have in common... and it’s the moral codes that are of transcendental, metaphysical origin... We should accept god as that which is beyond our capabilities... Unfortunately people today don’t believe the world has some spirit. They believe only in their own spirit.” However, the ultimate ideal for him is also humanitarism.
Can it be that he’s becoming ready for Krishna consciousness? Wouldn’t you like to give him some advice? Or should I not consider his concoctions?
Your servant, Punya Palaka dasa
(Text 128482) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 128627 by Suhotra Swami
Text 128627 (3 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 11-Apr-95 14:26
SST
Refernce: Text 128482 by
Punya Palaka (das) BVS (Prague - CZ)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [254],
AC
Bhaktivaibhava Swami [1073] (received:
14-Apr-95 10:16)
Cc: Brahma Muhurta
(das) HKS (NE BBT) [15524]
(received: 14-Apr-95 16:36)
(sender: Punya Palaka (das) BVS (Prague - CZ))
Subject: Mr.Havel
------------------------------------------------------------
You should write him a letter thanking him for his insightful speech, and you should present Krsna consciousness in a way that will interest him.
(Text 128627) ----------------------------------------------
Text 136580 (9 lines)
From: Govinda Madhava
(das) HKS (NE-BBT)
Date: 27-Apr-95 23:29
SST
To: Suhotra Swami
[3426] (received: 28-Apr-95 03:57)
Cc: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [273] (sender: Suhotra
Swami)
Subject: SB 5.8.26
------------------------------------------------------------
Pamho. AgtSP.
There is a seeming contracdiction between the verse and purport. Sri Sukadeva Gsovami says that the affection of Bharata Maharaja to a deer is definitely due to past karma, and Srila Prabhupada says just the opposite. At least it seems like this to me. Is this a place where the acaryas disagree, or how would you explain this?
yhs gmd
(Text 136580) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 136612 by Suhotra Swami
Text 136612 (17 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 28-Apr-95 04:11
SST
Refernce: Text 136580 by
Govinda Madhava (das) HKS (NE-BBT)
To: Govinda
Madhava (das) HKS (NE-BBT) [6538]
(received: 28-Apr-95 09:10),
(Have)
Danda (Will Travel) [274]
Subject: SB 5.8.26
------------------------------------------------------------
I think that Sukadeva Gosvami means “karma” in a different sense than ordinary karma. Something like “reaction for offenses.” If one chants the holy name inattentively, that’s an offense. The natural reaction is that the mind becomes attracted to something else than Krsna. My intuition is that something like this happened to Maharaja Bharata. He was a little inattentive in his Krsna consciousness, and thus his mind became overly attracted to the deer. In this sense, “due to the fruitive results of his past deeds, he fell down from mystic yoga, austerity and worship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.” Srila Prabhupada’s purport aims at distinguishing the activities and results of a devotee whose devotional service is somewhat offensive from that of the karmis, who do not even attempt to serve Krsna.
That’s my view. I would suggest you ask Gopi Paranadhana Prabhu. He may be able to answer your question by citing other commentaries on this verse, which are not available to me.
(Text 136612) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 136697 by Govinda Madhava (das) HKS (NE-BBT)
Text 136697 (2 lines)
From: Govinda Madhava
(das) HKS (NE-BBT)
Date: 28-Apr-95 09:33
SST
Refernce: Text 136612 by
Suhotra Swami
To: Suhotra Swami
[3435] (received: 28-Apr-95 11:38)
Cc: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [275] (sender: Suhotra
Swami)
Subject: SB 5.8.26
------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you, Maharaja. Your answer at least gives a clear hint how to understand this apparent contradiction.
(Text 136697) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 136736 by Suhotra Swami
Text 136736 (16 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 28-Apr-95 11:49
SST
Refernce: Text 136697 by
Govinda Madhava (das) HKS (NE-BBT)
To: Govinda
Madhava (das) HKS (NE-BBT) [6551]
(received: 28-Apr-95 12:09),
(Have)
Danda (Will Travel) [276]
Subject: SB 5.8.26
------------------------------------------------------------
SB 11.20.26 and the purport may be helpful as a sastric reference that distinguishes between the ordinary karma suffered by materialists and the piety and sin of a transcendentalist. The purport states, “The words sanganam tyajanecchaya indicate that one should not practice Krsna consciousness or self realization superficially or casually; rather one should sincerely and earnestly desire freedom from one’s past sinful life.” Maharaja Bharata was free from all past karma so long as he practiced Krsna consciousness seriously. But when he became inattentive, a new round of sanganam (which means “association with different types of sense gratification”) arose in his life, in the form of attachment to the deer. This verse says “sin occurs when a transcendentalist neglects his prescribed duty.” I think this is the “karma” Sukadeva Gosvami is referring to regarding Maharaja Bharata. It is not that some old karma prior to his renunciation seized him in spite of his sincere efforts to practice Krsna consciousness.
(Text 136736) ----------------------------------------------
Text 192149 (19 lines)
From: (Bhakta) Jan
Mares (NE-BBT Czech)
Date: 13-Aug-95 09:34
SST
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [327]
Subject: Karma
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Maharaja,
Please accept my respectful obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Trying to find out who is directly in charge of karma I have found two different information (quoted below). Could you please clarify this apparent contradiction?
Thank you.
Your servant
bh. Jan
SB 1.13.46 p., 1st par.: The highest perfectional project of philanthropic activities is to engage everyone in the act of preaching bhakti-yoga all over the world because that alone can save the people from the control of maya, or the material nature represented by kala, karma and guna, as described above.
SB 6.14.55 p., 1st par.: The subtle laws of karma, which are controlled by the Supreme, cannot be understood by ordinary conditioned souls.
(Text 192149) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 192431 by Suhotra Swami
Text 192431 (5 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 13-Aug-95 19:41
SST
Refernce: Text 192149 by
(Bhakta) Jan Mares (NE-BBT Czech)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [329]
Subject: Karma
------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t follow the contradiction that you say you have found in these two quotes. Ultimately everything is under the control of the /lÜ’b®(þSupreme. The material energy is the power of the Supreme. So what is the contradiction?
(Text 192431) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 192433 by (Bhakta) Jan Mares (NE-BBT Czech)
Text 192433 (2 lines)
From: (Bhakta) Jan
Mares (NE-BBT Czech)
Date: 13-Aug-95 19:50
SST
Refernce: Text 192431 by
Suhotra Swami
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [330]
Subject: Karma
------------------------------------------------------------
I wanted to know if karma is controlled directly by Krsna or through Durga as medium (I don’t doubt Krsna’s supremacy).
(Text 192433) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 192648 by Suhotra Swami
Text 192648 (4 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 14-Aug-95 04:13
SST
Refernce: Text 192433 by
(Bhakta) Jan Mares (NE-BBT Czech)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [331]
Subject: Karma
------------------------------------------------------------
If there is no doubt about Krsna’s supremacy, then there is no question of contradiction. This is a simple philosophical point of the Lord as the powerful and His material energy as the power.
(Text 192648) ----------------------------------------------
Text 192421 (16 lines)
From: Mahendra (das)
SS (Sofia - BU)
Date: 13-Aug-95 19:17
SST
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [328]
Subject:
------------------------------------------------------------
These questions were asked by bhn Svetlana (the architect) and I tried to write them down in a proper way:
· It is said there are eternaly liberated and eternaly conditioned souls. Does it mean that the liberated and conditioned always stays like liberated and conditioned or there are different categories of living entities which always exist?
· Why we desired to enjoy separately from Krsna?
· How the living entities become demons? Do the demons always sink down into hell or there is any chance for them to be saved? Does the division of demoniac and godly existed since the begining of creation?
· How to understand there was no creation in the spiritual world?
· It is said the soul has nothing to do with the material activities.
· Is it that one should be egocentricly disposed so that he starts
to think of his self-realisation? Ys
(Text 192421) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 192675 by Suhotra Swami
Text 192675 (53 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 14-Aug-95 06:15
SST
Refernce: Text 192421 by
Mahendra (das) SS (Sofia - BU)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [332]
Subject:
------------------------------------------------------------
These questions are not expressed very clearly in English. But I shall try to answer them anyway.
Uddhava:
“My dear Uddhava, due to the influence of the material modes of nature, which are under My control, the living entity is sometimes designated as conditioned and sometimes as liberated. In fact, however, the soul is never really bound up or liberated, and since I am the supreme Lord of maya, which is the cause of the modes of nature, I also am never to be considered liberated or in bondage.” (SB 11.11.1)
The propensity to enjoy is intrinsic to the soul. In his introduction to the Bhagavad-gita As It Is, Srila Prabhupada writes, “We are all hankering after pleasure. Ananda-mayo ‘bhyasat (Vedanta-sutra 1.1.12). The living entities, like the Lord, are full of consciousness, and they are after happiness. The Lord is perpetually happy, and if the living entities associate with the Lord, cooperate with Him and take part in His association, then they also become happy.” The living entity who comes under the influence of ignorance imagines himself to be an independent enjoyer from Krsna. That is the beginning of his material bondage. The essential answer to the question, “Why we desired to enjoy independently from Krsna?”, is: because of ignorance.
Living entities become demons due to cultivating the modes of passion and ignorance in their search for happiness apart from Krsna. Demons do certainly sink into hell. But they can also be saved even from hell by the mercy of the Lord and His pure devotees. The division of the divine and demoniac living entities has existed since the beginning of creation, as confirmed by Bg 16.6.
There is no creation in the spiritual world because there is no matter there. Matter is essentially spiritual energy of the nature of nirvisesa (without quality). While the substance of matter is eternal, the forms that matter displays are temporary, being created in time and destroyed in time. The spiritual world is comprised of spiritual energy that is full of transcendental qualities (visesa). Hence the names, forms, qualities and activities displayed in the spiritual world are timeless.
The soul is conditioned by material activities through the medium of the subtle body consisting of mind, intelligence and false ego. Just as the soul has nothing to do with gross physical activities, it has nothing to do with dream activities either. Yet while dreaming, we believe our experiences to be real, and we react to them in happiness, sadness or fear. This is all due to the subtle body.
There is a false ego and a real ego. Self-realization is real egoism. But this is only the beginning of spiritual life. Krsna is the Superself, and Krsna consciousness means to surrender the real self to the direction of the Superself. Otherwise, trying to realize the real self apart from Krsna leads to Mayavadi philosophy.
(Text 192675) ----------------------------------------------
Text 195287 (10 lines)
From: Lomancita (das)
PVS (Stockholm - S)
Date: 18-Aug-95 16:26
SST
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [333]
Subject: questions from
Cit Sakti dasa
------------------------------------------------------------
While reading verse 18.20 Bg. came to me few questions:
1. Word undivided indicates impersonal understanding?
(undivided spirit. nature = brahman?) In last sentens of purport is written impersonal knowledge.
2. And than knowledge in the mode of goodness is actually impersonal understanding of the Absolut Truth?
3. What is understanding or concept of the soul of impersonal
philosophy?
ys.Cit Sakti dasa
(Text 195287) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 195408 by Suhotra Swami
Text 195408 (27 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 19-Aug-95 10:32
SST
Refernce: Text 195287 by
Lomancita (das) PVS (Stockholm - S)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [334]
Subject: questions from
Cit Sakti dasa
------------------------------------------------------------
1. Yes.
2. That’s knowledge in the material mode of goodness. Knowledge in the transcendental mode of goodness (visuddha-sattva) is explained by Lord Siva in this way:
sattvam visuddham vasudeva-sabditam
yad iyate tatra puman apavrtah
sattve ca tasmin bhagavan vasudevo
hy adhoksajo me namasa vidhiyate
“I am always engaged in offering obeisances to Lord Vasudeva in pure Krna consciousness. Krsna consciousness is always pure consciousness, in which the Supreme Personality of Godhead, known as Vasudeva, is revealed without any covering.”
(SB 4.3.23)
3. That is explained in Bg 9.15 & purport. There are 3 kinds of impersonal conceptions: 1) ekatvena prthaktvena--the soul and Supreme Soul are one without any distinction (“I am God”); 2) bahudha--one soul is expanded throughout all living beings, thus any living entity may be worshiped as the Supreme; and 3) visvatah-mukham--unlimited souls comprise the universal form like cells comprise the human body, and thus the universal form is the supreme worshipable organism (i.e. there is nothing higher than the universal form).
(Text 195408) ----------------------------------------------
Text 201559 (19 lines)
From: (Temple)
Radhadesh (Belgium)
Date: 31-Aug-95 15:16
SST
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [335]
Subject: from Bhn Lisa-
Purusa Sukta prayers
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear GM,
PAMHO AGTSP
This month I learnt the Purusa Suktam prayers & have just recently come across the translation. When I last had darshan with HH Bhaktividya Purna Mhj he explained that the verses represent the different items offered to the Lord during puja, the sodasa upacaras.
In the general deity worship, the prayers you offer usually have something to do with the activity you are performing. In the Pancaratra Pradip suppl.(worshiping saligram silas) the sections you chant the verses in do not seem to be obviously related. Can you please explain the different Purusa Suktam verses in relation to each of the 16 upacaras?
PS can you please forward the answer to this question to R’desh account as it is not a member of Danda.
(Text 201559) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 201663 by Suhotra Swami
Text 201663 (53 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 31-Aug-95 17:33
SST
Refernce: Text 201559 by
(Temple) Radhadesh (Belgium)
To: (Have) Danda (Will
Travel) [337],
(Temple)
Radhadesh (Belgium) [1193] (received:
02-Sep-95 12:50)
Subject: from Bhn Lisa-
Purusa Sukta prayers
------------------------------------------------------------
The Purusa-sukta prayers are addressed to Maha Visnu and His Hiranyagarbha feature, i.e. the universal form.
For instance:
Yat Purusham yadaduh katidha vyakalpayan
Mukham kim asya kau bahu ka uru pada uchyete
“When they divided the Purusha, how many portions did they make? What do they call His mouth, His arms? What do they call His thighs and feet?”
Brahmano’sya mukham asid, bahu Rajanyah kritah
Uru tad asya yad Vaishyah, padbhyam Shudro ajayata
“The Brahmana was His mouth, of both arms was the Rajanya made.
His thighs became the Vaishya, from His feet the Shudra was produced.
Chandraama manaso jatash chakshoh Suryo ajayata
Mukhad Indrash chagnis cha, Pranad Vayur ajayata
“The moon was gendered from His mind, from His eye the sun had birth;
Indra and Agni from His mouth were born and Vayu from his breath.”
The Purusa-sukta is to be chanted during Yajna, which is peformed for the satisfaction of the all-pervading Visnu. Upacaras are not to be offered to the Universal Form. Srila Prabhupada, in a 1970 Srimad Bhagavatam lecture, explained why.
“Just like here we are worshiping Radha-Krsna Deity. You have all come here early in the morning, and... So does it mean that you are all fools? You have come to see a brass idol is being worshiped here? So anyone who considers the Deity as arcye sila-dhih, made of stone, made of brass, made of wood, that is naraki-buddhih. Arcye sila- dhih. Sila. Sila means stone. So those who are unaware of the Vedic knowledge, they consider that this is idol worship. It is not idol worship. It is directly worshiping the Supreme Lord. The Supreme Lord has, by His mercy, descended to accept your service. If you want to dress the Supreme Lord, if you take His virata- rupa, universal form, where is your cloth and how you can dress? Eh? You haven’t got so much cloth. In spite of having so many mills, you cannot dress the virata form. Therefore Krsna, by His omnipotency, He becomes a smaller just to be handled by you.”
Srila Prabhupada did not favor his disciples chanting the Purusa-sukta. When one disciple, who was a Sanskrit pandita, began doing that, Srila Prabhupada commented that this would be misunderstood as smarta-brahmanism.
Instead of Purusa-sukta, Gaudiya Vaisnavas prefer to chant Brahma-samhita.
(Text 201663) ----------------------------------------------
Text 201560 (29 lines)
From: (Temple)
Radhadesh (Belgium)
Date: 31-Aug-95 15:16
SST
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [336]
Subject: From Kamalavati
dd
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Guru Maharaja,
PAMHOAYLF! AGTSP!
Can you please kindly answer the following few questions:
1. For it is much easier to accept that material life is useless or in other words that we should completely renounce sense gratification than to try to enjoy in a regulated way. I prefer to try to renounce sense enjoyment than to try to enjoy it in a regulated (as presribed in the Vedas). Unfortunately I still have a desire for sense gratification so I was wondering if such an attitude is a result of passionate nature-something like “enjoy to the max or give it up completely”. Is it that we have to see our devotional level & humbly accept that we can neither enjoy as our mind tells us nor renounce completely sense gratification?
2. Can we kill mosquitoes? Actually I personally don’t see the logic but those kill them say that since they are attacking us we can do this as in the SB it is said that they are demoniac species along with snakes, scorpians etc. & that we can kill intruders.
3. Can we cook for you and offer you the preparations without first offering them on an alter to your picture of yourself, panca tattva etc. The same with putting incense & flowers in your room. How do you prefer it to be done?
Thank you for considering my questions.
YHS Kamalavati dd
PS Can you please add R’desh as a receiver to the answers of these questions since R’desh is not a member of the Danda conf. YS.
(Text 201560) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 201666 by Suhotra Swami
Text 201666 (26 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 31-Aug-95 17:37
SST
Refernce: Text 201560 by
(Temple) Radhadesh (Belgium)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [338],
(Temple)
Radhadesh (Belgium) [1194] (received:
02-Sep-95 12:50)
Subject: From Kamalavati
dd
------------------------------------------------------------
1. It is good to try to be averse to sense gratification, even though some subtle inclination to it remains in the mind.
Srila Gaurakisora das Babaji once said,. “If one remains in contact with stool, then wordhip of the Supreme Lord will not be possible.” After making this remark, he saw that the persons with him could not understand exactly what he meant. So he explained, “Those persons who remain in household life are always instructing, ‘Eat, eat.’ Thus they make their resicence the place of lust. This may be fit for the demigods but not for the devotees of the Lord. According to external materialistic vision persons think that they are residing in the heavenly planets, butactually they are living in a deep pond of stool in the form of the sense objects in the material world. For whoever seriously wordhips the Supreme Lord, taking full shelter of Him, wherever he resides wil be the same as Sri Radha Kunda.”
2. It is better not to kill mosquitos. Srila Prabhupada said that because they come to take your blood, they are aggressors and thus can be killed, but as Vaisnavas we should try to take some less violent means to deal with them. Therefore it is better to use a net or repellent.
3. I am a devotee, not God. I want to take the Lord’s remnants, not bhoga.
(Text 201666) ----------------------------------------------
Text 202807 (31 lines)
From: (Temple)
Radhadesh (Belgium)
Date: 02-Sep-95 12:50
SST
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [339]
Subject: From Bhn Lisa-
Vastu Purusa / Kamalavati dd - are painkillers a
------------------------------------------------------------
demoniac means?
Dear GM,
PAMHO AGTSP
Can you please explain what is ‘vastu’ & who/what is the Vastu Purusa who controls it & his origin? What is his particular function & importance of it?
Whilst in Mayapura this year, I noticed to one corner of the area where the yajna was being performed for the new temple, a raised area with 64 (I’m uncertain) coloured squares. I think I remember that this had something to do with Vastu Purusa- is this correct & if so, what is the connection?
YS Bhn Lisa
Dear Guru Maharaja,
PAMHOAYLF! AGTSP & His CENTENNIAL!
Somebody recently told me that to take painkillers is demoniac since it shows our tendency to control and avoid the pain we deserve. Moreover the same devotee told me that it’s useless since we will have to suffer the pain we are avoiding with the painkiller anyway. But I always thought that those who are trying to be devotees should simply strive to surrender to Krsna and He’ll take care of their karma - and it’s much easier to perform activities in KC if we properly take care of our headaches and other aches. Can you please comment on this - thank you.
YHS Kamalavati dd
PS. Can you please forward the answer of this text to R’desh account.
(Text 202807) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 203018 by Suhotra Swami
Text 203018 (9 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 02-Sep-95 19:15
SST
Refernce: Text 202807 by
(Temple) Radhadesh (Belgium)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [340],
(Temple)
Radhadesh (Belgium) [1204] (received:
05-Sep-95 12:44)
Subject: From Bhn Lisa-
Vastu Purusa / Kamalavati dd - are painkillers a
------------------------------------------------------------
Vastu means “substance.” Questions about yajna should be addressed to Bhakti Vidya Purna Maharaja, over the COM account of Govinda (SDM).
Srila Prabhupada used to tolerate pains like tooth-aches. But his own father used painkillers in his old age. Some of the most senior devotees in ISKCON who are troubled with migraine headaches use pain relieving medicines, otherwise their service would be impeded. That painkillers are demoniac is, I would say, a very opinionated stance. Let that person prove it by citing sastra.
(Text 203018) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 203592 by Suhotra Swami
Text 203592 (3 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 03-Sep-95 21:35
SST
Refernce: Text 203018 by
Suhotra Swami
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [343],
(Temple)
Radhadesh (Belgium) [1208] (received:
05-Sep-95 12:44)
Subject: From Bhn Lisa-
Vastu Purusa / Kamalavati dd - are painkillers a
------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, rather vastu and yajna questions should go to BVP Swami via the COM account of Govinda Das (SMP).
(Text 203592) ----------------------------------------------
Text 203440 (3 lines)
From: Mahendra (das)
SS (Sofia - BU)
Date: 03-Sep-95 14:37
SST
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [341]
Subject: question
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Guru Maharaja, Pamho, AgtSP!
prescribed by a karmi doctor? Ys
(Text 203440) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 203451 by Suhotra Swami
Text 203451 (2 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 03-Sep-95 15:31
SST
Refernce: Text 203440 by
Mahendra (das) SS (Sofia - BU)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [342]
Subject: question
------------------------------------------------------------
If you think that there may be such ingredients within, yes.
(Text 203451) ----------------------------------------------
Text 205090 (30 lines)
From: Punya Palaka
(das) BVS (Prague - CZ)
Date: 06-Sep-95 13:29
SST
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [345]
Subject: Christians
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Suhotra Maharaja,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
I was asking you about the monasteries in the morning because I got a letter from my wife - she heard from Vrndavani m., wife of Jayagurudeva prabhu, about one monastery they recently visited in Switzerland; there were young ladies there, waking up at 1 a.m., for hours chanting prayers, offering dandavats, living rigid life (?) as “real yoginis”... So she asked me, “Does it mean that love for Jesus can also be real?
And that it helps them to endure tapasya and find some pleasure in living with him? Otherwise how could they live like this?” How would you answer that? You already explained that waking early is natural, living in the monastery is a kind of occupation in the West, and that the monks and nuns don’t follow the four principles. So is it just another kind of sense gratification and nothing else?
And it’s a fact that I had many friends in the Czech Republic who were converting to Christianity at the communist times, at the risk of persecution, looking for some higher goals of life, discovering the forgotten tradition... Some of them have become preachers. But their ideal is “Love thy neighbour”, with praying to God for others’ welfare, thanking Him, and helping each other - in more or less sinful activities (without serving Krishna; although they say they serve God in this way). I have no doubts they cultivate bodily conception, lacking the spiritual philosophy. Does this mean they are actually demons, if they hesitate to take to Krsna consciousness “having once surrendered (mentally) to Jesus”? Because they don’t adhere to any authority?
Thank you. Your servant,
Punya Palaka dasa
(Text 205090) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 205236 by Suhotra Swami
Text 205236 (32 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 06-Sep-95 17:56
SST
Refernce: Text 205090 by
Punya Palaka (das) BVS (Prague - CZ)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [346]
Subject: Christians
------------------------------------------------------------
The fact that someone rises early and performs austerities is not necessarily a symptom of even the slightest spirituality. During the Vietnam war, the Viet Cong (Communist guerrillas) unwent horrendous austerities for many years. If they were lucky, they could eat one bowl of rice per day ... but often they could not even get that. And they lived in the jungle, in caves or in underground tunnels. And of course they were very conscious of death being very near. Don’t forget, this was all due to a strong belief ... in completely mundane ideals. They were atheists.
Buddhists are also atheists. Yet in Buddhist monasteries, monks and nuns perform very similar rigid austerities as do these Christians you mention.
Of course, we accept (as Prabhupada taught) that Jesus Christ is a saktyavesa avatar of Krsna, as is Lord Buddha. So there is certainly much more benefit in practicing austerities in the name of Jesus or Buddha than in the name of Ho Chi Minh or some similar materialistic socio-political leader. But as Srila Prabhupada explained to Yogi Amrit Desai, if bhakti-yoga is not performed properly (i.e. under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master), then all one gets for one’s hard work is simply the result of the work, in other words, karma. It can be very good karma that results in a birth in heaven. But if real spiritual standing is not awakened (realization of the self as distinct from the body, and the function of the eternal self as servant of the Supreme Person), then the benefit from such practices *must* be material. Srila Prabhupada even said that sentimental appreciation of his own books and teachings by a person in the sudra category, who does not follow the four regulative principles, will not bring that person to Krsna consciousness. “It is not possible,” he said. “We require first-class men to understand this philosophy.” In other words, brahmanas who strictly adhere to the sadacara and who cultivate transcendental knowledge by the authorized process handed down by the acaryas.
(Text 205236) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 205316 by Mukhya (dd) HKS (NE-BBT Bulgarian)
Text 205316 (19 lines)
From: Mukhya (dd) HKS
(NE-BBT Bulgarian)
Date: 06-Sep-95 20:15
SST
Refernce: Text 205236 by
Suhotra Swami
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [347]
Subject: Christians
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Maharaja,
I would like to ask a question in connection with the statement by Srila Prabhupada that only first-class men can understand Krsna conscious philosophy.
Sometimes sankirtan devotees say that they meet in the street persons who read carefully Srila Prabhupada’s books and some of those persons know and appreciate the books much more than the regular devotees in the temple. Is it possible that such persons who obviously do not follow the regulative principles and above all, who have not surrendered unto a spiritual master, are able to understand the philosophy better than the devotee who is trying to live the philosophy by executing devotional service?
Your humble servant,
Mukhya dd
(Text 205316) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 205347 by Suhotra Swami
Text 205347 (4 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 06-Sep-95 21:33
SST
Refernce: Text 205316 by
Mukhya (dd) HKS (NE-BBT Bulgarian)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [348]
Subject: Christians
------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps they understand it better as theory, or jnana. But if they do not follow the regulative principles, then they have no vijnana (realization). And that means they have no solid spiritual standing.
(Text 205347) ----------------------------------------------
Text 208262 (14 lines)
From: (Temple)
Radhadesh (Belgium)
Date: 12-Sep-95 12:29
SST
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [349]
Subject: From Kamalavati
dd
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Guru Maharaj,
PAMHO! AGtSP!
Sometimes my service is to be in the Boutique in RD and it happens that poeple are quite space out and give more laxmi than needed without being aware.
I usually give them back what is more than nessecary and they are very appreciative since it was their own fault to give so much and think that it’s ok. So I was wondaring if they’ll become more purified if I simply take the laxmi and use it in in Krsna’s service or if I give them back the money (which otherwise they’ll not notice anyway that they gave) and make them in this way a little more appreciative of the devotees? I am sorry to bother you with such insignificant questions but otherwise there are various opinions. your humble servant Kamalavati dd
Can you please add RD as a receiver of the answer to this question -
thank you! ys
(Text 208262) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 208463 by Suhotra Swami
Text 208463 (13 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 12-Sep-95 17:04
SST
Refernce: Text 208262 by
(Temple) Radhadesh (Belgium)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [350],
(Temple)
Radhadesh (Belgium) [1244] (received:
15-Sep-95 11:52)
Subject: From Kamalavati
dd
------------------------------------------------------------
It is not quite clear what you mean by “I usually give them back what is more than nessecary.” (It is spelled necessary, by the way). I suppose that you mean that your returning the correct change is not necessary because they do not know the correct price. But that phrase could also mean that you are charging them less than the sales price, giving back more change than is necessary.
Anyway, Srila Prabhupada said, “our men should be loved for their honesty.” And Abraham Lincoln said “You can fool some of the people all of the time, and you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.” So getting into the habit of practiciing small dishonesties will very likely backfire over the long run.
(Text 208463) ----------------------------------------------
Text 211169 (8 lines)
From: (Temple) Sofia
(Bulgaria)
Date: 17-Sep-95 04:43
SST
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [351]
Subject: from Aprameya dd
------------------------------------------------------------
/Dear Guru Maharaja, please accept my humble obeisances!
I’m perplexed why in SB 3.24.26 Lord Visnu is called Tri-yuga which means
as Srila Prabhupada explains that He desends in the three yugas, since I
know there are 4 yuga avataras. Is it so that the regular Kali yuga-avatar (which is different from Lord Gauranga Mahaprabhu) also appears as a devotee What is the position of Lord Kalki-avatara - is He yuga or lila avatara?
Is He appearing in each Kali yuga? Ys
(Text 211169) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 211181 by Suhotra Swami
Text 211181 (8 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 17-Sep-95 09:14
SST
Refernce: Text 211169 by
(Temple) Sofia (Bulgaria)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [353],
(Temple)
Sofia (Bulgaria) [47] (received:
19-Sep-95 16:36)
Subject: from Aprameya dd
------------------------------------------------------------
Tri-yuga means that the Lord comes in three ages to establish the Yuga Dharma. In the fourth age, He comes in a hidden (channa) form, not at the Lord, but as the Lord’s devotee.
Kalki-avatara appears at the close of the Kali Yuga. He does not come to teach dharma, only to kill. So he is not classed as Yuga Avatara. Yes, He is a lila-avatara.
(Text 211181) ----------------------------------------------
Text 211170 (6 lines)
From: Mahendra (das)
SS (Sofia - BU)
Date: 17-Sep-95 04:49
SST
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [352]
Subject: SB 5.5.22p
------------------------------------------------------------
I couldn’t understand some parts of the purport of tis text. Would you explain it?
“...In other words, matter also has the potency to manifest living entities in the form of vegetables. In this sense , life comes from matter, but matte r also comes from life...” Ys
(Text 211170) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 211324 by Suhotra Swami
Text 211324 (17 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 17-Sep-95 15:02
SST
Refernce: Text 211170 by
Mahendra (das) SS (Sofia - BU)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [354]
Subject: SB 5.5.22p
------------------------------------------------------------
In the same purport, Srila Prabhupada writes as follows.
“Krsna is the supreme living being. Although it may be said that in the material world a living force is generated from matter, it must be admitted that originally matter is generated from the supreme living being. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam. The conclusion is that everything, both material and spiritual, is generated from the Supreme Being. From the evolutionary point of view, perfection is reached when the living entity attains the platform of a brahmana.”
Matter and spirit both emanate from the Supreme Spirit. Krsna glances over matter, impregnating her with undeveloped spirit souls. She develops their consciousness by birthing them through higher and higher species. Finally, when they come to brahminical status, they are liberated, and their pure spiritual nature is revealed. Thus, as Srila Prabhupada states, “In this sense, life comes out of matter, but matter also comes out of life.”
(Text 211324) ----------------------------------------------
Text 212759 (3 lines)
From: Mahendra (das)
SS (Sofia - BU)
Date: 19-Sep-95 16:23
SST
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [355]
Subject: from Aprameya
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Guru Maharaja, please accept my humble obeisances!
I’d like to ask you is there any connection between the heart and
the mind or the intelligence. What is actually the heart? Ys
(Text 212759) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 213044 by Suhotra Swami
Text 213044 (6 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 20-Sep-95 06:43
SST
Refernce: Text 212759 by
Mahendra (das) SS (Sofia - BU)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [357]
Subject: from Aprameya
------------------------------------------------------------
The heart is the seat of the soul. The soul is the source of consciousness. The mind and intelligence are coverings, or conditionings, of intelligence. Hence, there is a connection between the heart and the mind, and intelligence. The heart is therefore said to be the seat of the mind and the intelligence.
(Text 213044) ----------------------------------------------
Text 212980 (19 lines)
From: “LINK: Subala
(Dasa) MG (ICG - Potomac, MD)” <Subala.MG@iskcon.com>
Date: 19-Sep-95 17:26
EDT
To: Discussions
[1817],
(Have)
Danda (Will Travel) [356],
LINK: Vraja Kishor (Dasa) DDS (Towaco)
<Vraja.Kishor.DDS@iskcon.com>
Subject: Krsna in the
Catur-Vyuha
------------------------------------------------------------
Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
There is no any contradiction with that statment. First goes Krishna - Balarama - Maha Sankarsana - 1st Caturvyuha - 2nd - Maha Visnu - etc...
There is nothing wrong to call Balarama - Sankarsan. Actually He was named Sankarsan (Garga Muni called him like that) because He was transfered from womb of Devaki to womb of Rohini.
And Vaasudeva Krishna - because He was a son of Vasudeva and also because Krishna in Dvaraka called Vaasudeva Krishna - being a Vaibahava Prakasa of Lord Krsna and playing role as Ksatriya (in ksatriya vesa).
(if I’m wrong please correct me)
Your servant
Subala dasa
(Text 212980) ----------------------------------------------
Text 213211 (14 lines)
From: (Bhakta) Jan
Mares (NE-BBT Czech)
Date: 20-Sep-95 11:55
SST
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [358]
Subject: Right or left
ear?
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Maharaja,
Please accept my respectful obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
SB 4.25.50-51p. states that right ear (Pitrhu) is `meant’ for fruitive activities and left ear (Devahu) for spiritual activities like initiation by Gayatri mantra. On the other hand, Srila Prabhupada many times says that Gayatri mantra should be uttered into the right ear of the disciple.
Thank you.
Your servant
bh. Jan
(Text 213211) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 213867 by Suhotra Swami
Text 213867 (4 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 21-Sep-95 16:21
SST
Refernce: Text 213211 by
(Bhakta) Jan Mares (NE-BBT Czech)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [359]
Subject: Right or left
ear?
------------------------------------------------------------
When the guru and disciple are both facing East, then the mantra is given in the left ear. When they are both facing each other then the guru gives the mantra in the right ear. Some Paddhatis (rule books) say the guru and disciple should face East, some say face each other.
(Text 213867) ----------------------------------------------
Text 215626 (12 lines)
From: Amaraprabhu
(das) SS (Berlin)
Date: 24-Sep-95 13:00
SST
To: Discussions
[1861],
(Have)
Danda (Will Travel) [360],
HDG
Istagosthi (disciples and followers) [16],
Q&A
with KK-Das [173]
Subject: Krsna in the
Catur-Vyuha
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Vaishnavas,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Recently someone asked me: “since the chatur vyuha expands from Balaräma, why is sankarsana known as balarama and vasudeva as Krishna?”
I have no idea. I think I heard that vasudeva actually expands from Krsna - but I am not confident about it. Please help.
Your servant,
Vraja Kishor das
(Text 215626) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 215790 by Suhotra Swami
Text 215790 (6 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 24-Sep-95 17:43
SST
Refernce:
Text 215626 by Amaraprabhu (das) SS (Berlin)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [361],
Amaraprabhu
(das) SS (Berlin) [67] (received:
25-Sep-95 14:44)
Subject: Krsna in the
Catur-Vyuha
------------------------------------------------------------
The point to understand is not that Balarama is the original source of the catur-vyuha, but that Balarama is the power by which the vyuha expands. Balarama is Lord Krsna’s own power, appearing as His brother. Balarama’s service to Krsna is to make all arrangements for the expansion of His pastimes. Krsna is always the original source.
(Text 215790) ----------------------------------------------
Text 215965 (6 lines)
From: Vrajendra Kumara
(das) PVS (Vladivostok - R)
Date: 25-Sep-95 05:27
SST
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [362]
Subject: pretas
------------------------------------------------------------
Your Holiness, can you please explain why in S.B.2.6.43-45 dead bodies (pretas) are listed amongst living beings possessed of power,opulence etc. What does it mean? Are they some kind of zombies or what?
(Text 215965) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 216081 by Suhotra Swami
Text 216081 (8 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 25-Sep-95 11:11
SST
Refernce:
Text 215965 by Vrajendra Kumara (das) PVS (Vladivostok - R)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [364]
Subject: pretas
------------------------------------------------------------
Preta means a departed anscestor who did not become a pitri (forefather on the Pitriloka). He became a ghost instead. Sometimes pretas move about in dead bodies. There’s an interesting story about that in Sanskrit literature. Anyway, preta-dosa (the state of being haunted by a preta) proves the power of ghosts. They are mysterious entities, and men not only fear their power but even worship them. That power that is feared and worshiped also represents Lord Krsna’s opulence.
(Text 216081) ---------------------------------------------- Comments: Text 216714 by Dadhibhaksa (das) HKS (Croatia)
Text 216714 (4 lines)
From: Dadhibhaksa
(das) HKS (Croatia)
Date: 26-Sep-95 12:05
SST
Refernce:
Text 216081 by Suhotra Swami
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [368]
Subject: pretas
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Maharaja,
Pamho. AgtSP!
Where we can find this interesting story about pretas in sastras?
ys Dbd
(Text 216714) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 216770 by Suhotra Swami
Text 216770 (3 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 26-Sep-95 14:31
SST
Refernce:
Text 216714 by Dadhibhaksa (das) HKS (Croatia)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [369]
Subject: pretas
------------------------------------------------------------
It is not in sastra. It is an old Sanskrit story. It was translated by an Englishman named F.W. Bain and published as part of an anthology in 1901.
(Text 216770) ----------------------------------------------
Text 215996 (22 lines)
From: Janaka Gauranga
(das) JPS (NE-BBT)
Date: 25-Sep-95 09:21
SST
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [363]
Subject: although
------------------------------------------------------------
Please accept my respectful obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
While translating SB, we came across a following sentence, which is marked.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 6: Chapter Nine, Text 34 TRANSLATION
(the demigods said:) “O Lord, You need no support, and ALTHOUGH YOU HAVE NO MATERIAL BODY, YOU DO NOT NEED COOPERATION FROM US. Since You are the cause of the cosmic manifestation and You supply its material ingredients without being transformed, You create, maintain and annihilate this cosmic manifestation by Yourself...”
In the PURP it is said:
“The demigods are understood to be various limbs of the Supreme Lord’s body, although the Supreme Lord has no material body and does not need anyone’s help.”
Does it mean that demigods are rejecting the idea that “if the Lord has to maintain this material cosmic manifestation, He must have a material body, and if He has not such a material body, He needs a help from demigods” ?
Thank you. ys jgd
(Text 215996) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 216082 by Suhotra Swami
Text 216082 (2 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 25-Sep-95 11:12
SST
Refernce:
Text 215996 by Janaka Gauranga (das) JPS (NE-BBT)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [365]
Subject: although
------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I would agree with your analysis.
(Text 216082) ----------------------------------------------
Text 216183 (12 lines)
From: Amaraprabhu
(das) SS (Berlin)
Date: 25-Sep-95 14:45
SST
To: Discussions
[1880],
(Have)
Danda (Will Travel) [366],
HDG
Istagosthi (disciples and followers) [18],
Q&A
with KK-Das [175]
Subject: Krsna in the
Catur-Vyuha
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Vaishnavas,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Recently someone asked me: “since the chatur vyuha expands from Balaräma, why is sankarsana known as balarama and vasudeva as Krishna?”
I have no idea. I think I heard that vasudeva actually expands from Krsna - but I am not confident about it. Please help.
Your servant,
Vraja Kishor das
(Text 216183) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 216252 by Suhotra Swami
Text 216252 (3 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 25-Sep-95 15:22
SST
Refernce:
Text 216183 by Amaraprabhu (das) SS (Berlin)
To: Discussions
[1881],
(Have)
Danda (Will Travel) [367],
HDG
Istagosthi (disciples and followers) [19],
Q&A
with KK-Das [176],
Amaraprabhu
(das) SS (Berlin) [78] (received:
09-Oct-95 15:42)
Subject: Krsna in the
Catur-Vyuha
------------------------------------------------------------
You sent this text to Danda already, and I replied here. Please don’t keep sending it again and again.
(Text 216252) ----------------------------------------------
Text 217408 (19 lines)
From: Adhira (dd) HKS
(Wroclaw - PL)
Date: 27-Sep-95 17:41
SST
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [370]
Subject: Tattvavadis
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Suhotra Maharaja,
Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Harikesa Maharaja direted me to You with this technical question:
In CC Madhya-lila Chapter 9,text 11 Purport,Srila Prabhupada comments that:”Actually the disciplic succession of Madhvacarya is known as the Brahma-Vaisnava sect; that is the sect coming down from Lord Brahma. Consequently the Tattvavadis or the followers of Madhvacarya do not accept the incident of Lord Brahma’s illusion...Srila Madhvacarya has purposefully avoided commenting on that portion of S.B. in which brahma-mohana ,the illusion of Lord Brahma is mentioned.”
Why didn’t they accept this incident? Our sampradaya is also coming down from Lord Brahma through Madhvacarya then why do our acaryas comment on that event?
Your humble servant
(Text 217408) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 218382 by Suhotra Swami
Text 218382 (15 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 28-Sep-95 17:54
SST
Refernce:
Text 217408 by Adhira (dd) HKS (Wroclaw - PL)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [371]
Subject: Tattvavadis
------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t have an in-depth answer I can give you on this, because though I’ve read several books by the top Tattvavadi scholar of the modern time, and though I’ve even met that scholar personally and discussed philosophy with him, I did not go into this particulary question, nor have I seen anything written about it from the Tattvavadi side. But my understanding is that in respecting Brahma as the first acarya of the sampradaya, the Tattvavadis cannot accomodate his being in any kind of illusion. Apparently, for them, to admit he was in illusion would call into question his capacity to be acarya. But Srila Prabhupada answered this point as follows --
Aksayananda: So there’s no doubt that Lord Brahma is a pure devotee?
Prabhupada: Whatever he may be, he is acarya.
(From a morning walk of 10 December 1975)
(Text 218382) ----------------------------------------------
Text 223617 (15 lines)
From: Vijnana (das)
DDV (Athens - GR)
Date: 07-Oct-95 18:27
SWT
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [372]
Subject: ten offenses.
------------------------------------------------------------
Please accept my humble obeisances, all glories to Srila Prabhupada.
I remember hearing a tape of yours once with an explanation of how the ten offenses are made by persons as they come closer to Krishna. I dont remember much though due to my Kali Yuga memory. Could you explain it to me.
thank you
Vijnana dasa
(Text 223617) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 223874 by Suhotra Swami
Text 223874 (14 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 08-Oct-95 10:25
SWT
Refernce:
Text 223617 by Vijnana (das) DDV (Athens - GR)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [373]
Subject: ten offenses.
------------------------------------------------------------
I can’t remember saying what you’ve described. But it reminds of an example about approaching a bright light out of the darkness. As one gets closer to the light, one’s shadow gets bigger and bigger. So Maya is compared to darkness and shadow. In that sense, then, as one comes closer to the light of Krsna consciousness, Maya’s influence seems to get stronger and stronger. Of course, if one keeps his attention on the light and doesn’t look back, then one will not notice the lengthening shadows. This is the real point. It is not simply, as you’ve worded it, “the ten offenses are made by persons as they come closer to Krishna.” It is not that it *must* happen. Maya is always one step behind us, of course, but we don’t have to give her attention and thus fall under her spell. We should just keep our attention firmly fixed on the Holy Name. Thus we shall avoid offenses and approach Krsna without difficulty.
(Text 223874) ----------------------------------------------
Text 225600 (30 lines)
From: Vijnana (das)
DDV (Athens - GR)
Date: 11-Oct-95 14:58
SWT
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [374]
Subject: offenses
------------------------------------------------------------
Please accept my humble obeisances, all glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Please excuse me if I cannot remember very clearly the analysis you gave. I will try to give a better idea.
It was something like the ten offenses happening in a sequential order as one comes to The Krishna consciousness movement. Not that they *must* happen as you pointed out, but that they may happen.
Like when one first sees the devotees he may blaspheme them, or joke about them thus committing the first offense. Then when hearing about Krishna he commits the second offense by thinking he is equal to other gods. Then after hearing and taking initiation he may disobey the orders of his spiritual master. Up to the point where after being a devotee for so long still he maintains material attachments even after understanding so many instructions on this matter.
Please forgive me if I am unclear. I only heard the class once when I was with Gaura Bhagavan on Sankirtan. It just seemed like such a wonderful analysis and I have such a bad memory I forgot it. Anyway if I am too unclear then I will not disturb you any more about it.
Vijnana dasa
(Text 225600) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 225752 by Suhotra Swami
Text 225752 (4 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 11-Oct-95 19:35
SWT
Refernce:
Text 225600 by Vijnana (das) DDV (Athens - GR)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [375]
Subject: offenses
------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, it was something like that. Not that it has to happen that way, but there is a sense in the progression by which one offense can lead to all ten.
(Text 225752) ----------------------------------------------
Text 228021 (6 lines)
From: Bhagadatta (das)
SS (Sofia - Bulg.)
Date: 18-Oct-95 05:05
SWT
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [376]
Subject:
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Guru Maharaja,
PAMHO. AGTSP! In the end of the first paragraph from the purport to text 16 from the 15-th chapter of BG there is one line I can’t understand:”Of course, in the spiritual world there is no such thing as creation, but since the SPG, as stated in the Vedanta-sutra, is the source of all emanations, that conception is explained.” Could you clearify this.
(Text 228021) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 228024 by Suhotra Swami
Text 228024 (9 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 18-Oct-95 05:28
SWT
Refernce:
Text 228021 by Bhagadatta (das) SS (Sofia - Bulg.)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [377],
Bhagadatta
(das) SS (Sofia - Bulg.) [17]
(received:
19-Oct-95 07:42)
Subject:
------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing in the spiritual world is created in time, as things are created here at a certain point. Everything in Vaikuntha is eternal. But even in eternality, Krsna is the source. That is the meaning of *nityo nitananam cetanas cetananam*: “Among eternally conscious beings, there is one supreme eternally conscious being.” A helpful example is the sun and the sunlight. As the sun exists so also the sunlight exists. They are inseparable. There is no way to know the sun if there would be no sunlight. Yet still the sun is the source of the sunlight.
(Text 228024) ----------------------------------------------
Text 232130 (19 lines)
From: Diviratha (das)
HKS (Cologne - D)
Date: 25-Oct-95 08:37
SWT
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [378]
Subject: mayavadis
------------------------------------------------------------
A German scholar is about to write an article for an important book about Srila Prabhupadas methods of dealings with mayavadis and their philosophy. I try to help her to get the right understanding. In this connection I need the following information:
1) Are the Gita-mahatmya verses, quoted by Srila Prabhupada in his BG intro, composed by Sankaracarya? If so, in which book did he write them and when? Where information about that could be found?
2) in the Prabhupada nectar books is a story how Srila Prabhupada allowed to put the Sariraka bhasya in a library of an ISKCON temple. How to under-stand this? Did he allow all (mature) devotees to study Sankaracaryas commentary or is it only for specific devotees?
3) What is the difference between the philosophy of Ramanujacarya and that of Lord Caitanya? (Especially in regard to mayavadi philosophy, but in general too.)
Thank you very much for answering. YSDD
(Text 232130) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 232172 by Suhotra Swami,
Text 232177 by Suhotra Swami
Text 232172 (166 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 25-Oct-95 09:58
SWT
Refernce:
Text 232130 by Diviratha (das) HKS (Cologne - D)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [379]
Subject: mayavadis
------------------------------------------------------------
1) The Gita-mahatmya is composed by Sankaracarya. For further information, you will have to do your own research. I suggest you contact Dr. Tilak Raj Chopra, Haselweg 15, 5309 Meckenheim-Merl, GERMANY, tel. 02225-3142 [I do not know if this address and telephone number are still current, however]. He is an Indologist and Sanskritist at the Uni Bonn who is fully trained up in Mayavadi philosophy, and yet (up to a few years ago, anyway) is friendly to devotees.
2) Keeping a book in a library is one thing; allowing devotees to study it is another. Lord Caitanya said *mayavadi bhasya sunile haya sarva nash*, “hearing the Mayavadi bhasya of Sankara brings spiritual destruction.”
3) This is a big question. As an answer, I’ll put here a text I wrote for the ISKCON Homepage on the internet World Wide Web. It briefly compares the Vedanta doctrines of the 4 Vaisnava sampradayas with Lord Caitanya’s sampradaya.
The highest degree of Vedic education, traditionally reserved for the sannyasis (renunciates), is mastery of the texts known as the Upanisads. The Upanisads teach the philosophy of the Absolute Truth (Brahman) to those seeking liberation from birth and death. Study of the Upanisads is known as Vedanta, `the conclusion of the Veda.’ The word *upanisad* means `that which is learned by sitting close to the teacher.’ The texts of the Upanisads are extremely difficult to fathom; they are to be understood only under the close guidance of a spiritual master (guru). Because the Upanisads contain many apparently contradictory statements, the great sage Vyasadeva (also known as Vedavyasa, Badarayana and Dvaipayana) systematized the Upanisadic teachings in the Vedanta-sutra or Brahma-sutra. Vyasa’s sutras are very terse. Without a fuller explanation, their meaning is difficult to grasp. In India there are five main schools of Vedanta, each established by an acarya (founder) who explained the sutras in a bhasya (commentary).
Of the five schools, one, namely Adi Sankara’s, is impersonalist. Sankara taught that Brahman has no name, form nor personal characteristics. His school is opposed by the four Vaisnava sampradayas founded by Ramanuja, Madhva, Nimbarka and Visnusvami. Unlike the impersonalist school, Vaisnava Vedanta admits the validity of Vedic statements that establish difference (bheda) within Brahman, as well those that establish nondifference (abheda). Taking the bheda and abheda statements together, the Vaisnava Vedantists distinguish between three features of the one Vastu Brahman (Divine Substance):
1) Visnu as the Supreme Soul (Para Brahman), 2) the individual self as the subordinate soul (Jiva Brahman), and 3) matter as creative nature (Mahad Brahman). The philosophies of the four Vaisnava sampradayas dispel the sense of mundane limitation ordinarily associated with the word `person.’ Visnu is accepted by all schools of Vaisnava Vedanta as the transcendental, unlimited Purusottama (Supreme Person), while the individual souls and matter are His conscious and unconscious energies (cidacid-sakti).
Each of the Vedantist schools is known for its siddhanta or `essential conclusion’ about the relationships between God and the soul, the soul and matter, matter and matter, matter and God, and the soul and souls. Sankara’s siddhanta is Advaita, `nondifference’ (i.e. everything is one, therefore these five relationships are unreal). All the other siddhantas support the reality of these relationships from various points of view. Ramanuja’s siddhanta is Visistadvaita, `qualified nondifference.’ Madhva’s siddhanta is Dvaita, `difference.’ Visnusvami’s siddhanta is Suddhadvaita, `purified nondifference.’ And Nimbarka’s siddhanta is Dvaita-advaita, `difference-and-identity.’
The Bengali branch of Madhva’s sampradaya is known as the Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya Sampradaya, or the Caitanya Sampradaya. In the 1700’s this school presented Indian philosophers with a commentary on Vedanta-sutra written by Baladeva Vidyabhusana that argued yet another siddhanta. It is called Acintya-bhedabheda-tattva, which means `simultaneous inconceivable oneness and difference.’ In recent years this siddhanta has become known to people from all over the world due to the popularity of the books of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Acintya-bhedabheda philosophy maintains the same standpoint of `difference’ as Madhva’s siddhanta on the five-fold relationship of God to soul, soul to matter, matter to matter, matter to God and soul to soul. But Acintya-bhedabheda-tattva further teaches the doctrine of Saktiparinamavada (the transformation of the Lord’s sakti), in which the origin of this five-fold differentiation is traced to the Lord’s play with His sakti or energy. Because the souls and matter emanate from the Lord, they are one in Him as His energy yet simultaneously distinct from Him and one another. The oneness and difference of this five-fold relationship is termed acintya or inconceivable because, as Srila Prabhupada writes in his purport to Bhagavad-gita 18.78, `Nothing is different from the Supreme, but the Supreme is always different from everything.’ As the transcendental origin and coordinator of His energies, God is ever the inconceivable factor.
The four Vaisnava sampradayas all agree that Visnu is the cause. However, they explain His relationship with His creation differently. In Visistadvaita, the material world is said to be the body of Visnu, the Supreme Soul. But the Dvaita school does not agree that matter is connected to Visnu as body is to soul, because Visnu, God, is transcendental to matter. The world of matter is full of misery, but since Vedanta-sutra 1.1.12 defines God as anandamaya (abundantly blissful), how can nonblissful matter be His body? The truth according to the Dvaita school is that matter is ever separate from Visnu but yet is eternally dependent upon Visnu; by God’s will, says the Dvaita school, matter becomes the ingredient cause of the world. The Suddhadvaita school cannot agree with the Dvaita school that matter is the ingredient cause because matter has no independent origin apart from God. Matter is actually not different from God in the same way an effect is not different from its cause, although there is an appearance of difference. The example of the ocean and its waves is given by Suddhadvaita philosophers to illustrate their argument that the cause (the ocean) is the same as the effect (the waves). The Dvaitadvaita school agrees that God is both the cause and effect, but is dissatisfied with the Suddhadvaita school’s standpoint that there is really no difference between God and the world. The Dvaitadvaita school says that God is neither one with nor different from the world--He is both. A snake, the Dvaitadvaita school argues, can neither be said to have a coiled form or a straight form. It has both forms. Similarly, God’s `coiled form’ is His transcendental non-material aspect, and His `straight form’ is His mundane aspect. But this explanation is not without its problems. If God’s personal nature is eternity, knowledge and bliss, how can the material world, which is temporary, full of ignorance and miserable, be said to be just another form of God?
The Caitanya school reconciles these seemingly disparate views of God’s relationship to the world by arguing that the Vedic scriptures testify to God’s acintya-sakti, `inconceivable powers.’ God is simultaneously the cause of the world in every sense and yet distinct from and transcendental to the world. The example given is of a spider and its web. The web emanates from the spider’s body, so the spider may be taken as the ingredient cause of the web. But that does not make the spider and the web one and the same. The spider is always a separate and distinct entity from its web. Yet again, while the spider never `is’ the web, the existence of the web cannot be separated from the spider. There is a further lesson to be learned from this example: while the spider is clearly different from its web-creation, it nontheless is acutely conscious of every corner of it. In philosophical terms, we could say the spider is *transcendental* to the web by its identity, yet simultaneously *immanent* throughout the web by its knowledge. This is a simple yet powerful demonstration of acintya-bhedabheda-tattva. Lord Krsna, in *Bhagavad-gita* 9.4 and 5, says He pervades the whole universe by His complete awareness of the spiritual and material energies that make up the creation. Yet at the same time, in His identity as the source of everything, He stands apart from the cosmic manifestation.
The web is compared to God’s Maya-sakti (power of illusion), which emanates from the Real but is not real itself. `Not real’ means that the features of maya (the tri-guna, or three modes of material nature: goodness, passion and ignorance) are temporary. `Not real’ does not mean the material world does not exist. The essential ingredient (vastu) of the world is real, because it is the energy of God. But the form this energy takes at the time of cosmic creation is temporary. Therefore the Maya-sakti is said to be unreal. Reality is that which is eternal:
God and God’s Svarupa-sakti (spiritual energy). The temporal features of the material world are manifestations of the Maya-sakti, not of God Himself. These features of Maya bewilder the souls of this world just as flies are caught in the spider’s web. But they cannot bewilder God. God appears within this material world as the supreme individual person, yet He is not bound by this world, exactly as a spider is able to move anywhere in its web-creation without being bound by it. (Text 232172) ---------------------------------------------- Comments: Text 232731 by Diviratha (das) HKS (Cologne - D)
Text 232177 (38 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 25-Oct-95 10:06
SWT
Refernce:
Text 232130 by Diviratha (das) HKS (Cologne - D)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [380]
Subject: mayavadis
------------------------------------------------------------
Sometimes Sankara’s Advaita Vedanta commentary is presented in books about Hinduism as if it is the original and only Vedanta philosophy. But in fact Sankara’s philosophy is more akin to Buddhism than Vedanta. Buddhism is, of course, a nastika or non-Vedic religion. Before 600 AD, the time of Sankara’s appearance, most Vedantist scholars did not endorse a doctrine of impersonalism. Evidence gathered from the writings of pre-Sankara Buddhist scholars shows that their Vedantist contemporaries were Purusa-vadins (purusa = `person’, vadin = `philosopher’). Purusavadins taught that the goal of Vedanta philosophy is the Mahapurusa (Greatest Person). Bhavya, an Indian Buddhist author who lived centuries before Sankara, wrote in the Madhyamika-hrdaya-karika that the Vedantists of his time were adherants of the doctrine of bhedabheda (difference and nondifference). That Sankara borrowed Buddhistic ideas was noted by the Buddhists themselves. A Buddhist writer named Bhartrhari, who lived at the same time as Sankara, expressed some surprise that although Sankara was a brahmana scholar of the Vedas, his impersonal teachings resembled Buddhism. This is admitted by the followers of Sankara themselves. Pandit Dr. Rajmani Tigunait of the Himalayan Institute of Yoga is a present-day exponent of Advaita Vedanta; in his book, *Seven Systems of Indian Philosophy*, he writes that the ideas of the Buddhist Sunyavada (voidist) philosophers are `very close’ to Sankara’s. Sankara inserted into Vedantic discourse the Buddhistic concept of ultimate emptiness, substituting the Upanisadic word Brahman (the Absolute) for Sunya (the void). Because Sankara argued that all names, forms, qualities, activities and relationships are creations of Maya (illusion), even divine names and forms, his philosophy is called Mayavada (the doctrine of illusion).
However, to compare Brahman with the void is philosophically unteneble. The Vedanta-sutra defines Brahman, not Maya, as the cause of everything (janmadyasya-yatah, V-s. 1.1.2). How can that which lacks name, form, quality and activity be the cause of that which possesses these features? *Nil posse creari de nilo*: nothing can be created out of nothing. Mayavadi Vedanta avoids the issue of causation by arguing that the world, though empirically real, is ultimatly a dream. But dreams also have elaborate causes.
(Text 232177) ----------------------------------------------
Text 232731 (1 line)
From: Diviratha (das)
HKS (Cologne - D)
Date: 26-Oct-95 16:02
SWT
Refernce:
Text 232172 by Suhotra Swami
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [383]
Subject: mayavadis
------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you Maharaja.
(Text 232731) ----------------------------------------------
Text 232539 (25 lines)
From: Vrajendra Kumara
(das) PVS (Vladivostok - R)
Date: 26-Oct-95 06:07
SWT
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [381]
Subject:
------------------------------------------------------------
Your Holiness, can you please explain what self-envy is? In S.B.6.16.42 it is stated:”...By causing pain to one’s own self due to self-envy and by causing pain to others, one arouses Your anger and practices irreligion”. Someone told me that in English envious also means enimical but I couldn’t find that meaning in the dictionary. Moreover if it means “enimical” in this case why the other word is chosen? I don’t know how it sounds in English but in my language (Russian) “self-envy” doesn’t make any sense. Sanskrit equivalent for this word is “sva-drohat”. The second question is from B.G.18.26:”One who performs his duty without association with the modes of material nature, without false ego, with great determination and enthusiasm, and without wavering in success or failure is said to be a worker in the mode of goodness”. Why first it is stated that one works without association with modes (literally mukta-sanga - “liberated from all material association) and then the statement goes ...”this worker is in the mode of goodnes”? And in the purport Srila Prabhupada is speaking about activities in Krishna consciousness. So it seems that he equates the activity in the mode of goodness and in pure Krsna Consciousness.
Could you please clarify this apparent contradiction.
Ys Vrajendra kumara das
(Text 232539) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 232543 by Suhotra Swami,
Text 265496 by (Bhakta) Maxim (IC Moscow - R)
Text 232543 (55 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 26-Oct-95 06:31
SWT
Refernce:
Text 232539 by Vrajendra Kumara (das) PVS (Vladivostok - R)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [382]
Subject:
------------------------------------------------------------
“A demoniac person, being always against God’s supremacy, does not like to believe in the scriptures. He is envious of both the scriptures and the existence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is caused by his so-called prestige and his accumulation of wealth and strength. He does not know that the present life is a preparation for the next life. Not knowing this, he is actually envious of his own self, as well as of others. He commits violence on other bodies and on his own. He does not care for the supreme control of the Personality of Godhead, because he has no knowledge. Being envious of the scriptures and the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he puts forward false arguments against the existence of God and denies the scriptural authority.” (From Bg 16.18p)
“But unfortunately, especially in this age, na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum: people do not know that the highest goal of human life is to please Lord Visnu. On the contrary, like demons, they simply plan to kill Visnu and be happy by sense gratification.” (From SB 7.2.14p)
*Svartha-gati* (quoted above, which comes from SB 7.5.31) Prabhupada often translated as “self-interest.” Thus, by envying Visnu and planning to kill Him, materialists kill their own self-interest. In this way they are envious of their own self.
Your second question is answered in the purport to SB 8.5.29.
“Sattvam visuddham vasudeva-sabditam (SB. 4.3.23). In this material world, the three modes of material nature--goodness, passion and ignorance--prevail. Among these three, goodness is the platform of knowledge, and passion brings about a mixture of knowledge and ignorance, but the mode of ignorance is full of darkness. Therefore the Supreme Personality of Godhead is beyond darkness and passion. He is on the platform where goodness or knowledge is not disturbed by passion and ignorance. This is called the vasudeva platform. It is on this platform of vasudeva that Vasudeva, or Krsna, can appear. Thus Krsna appeared on this planet as the son of Vasudeva. Because the Lord is situated beyond the three modes of material nature, He is unseen by those who are dominated by these three modes. One must therefore become dhira, or undisturbed by the modes of material nature. The process of yoga may be practiced by one who is free from the agitation of these modes. Therefore yoga is defined in this way: yoga indriya-samyamah. As previously explained, we are disturbed by the indriyas, or senses. Moreover, we are agitated by the three modes of material nature, which are imposed upon us by the external energy. In conditional life, the living entity moves turbulently in the whirlpool of birth and death, but when one is situated on the transcendental platform of visuddha-sattva, pure goodness, he can see the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who sits on the back of Garuda. Lord Brahma offers his respectful obeisances unto that Supreme Lord.”
The essence is that material goodness is still influenced by passion and ignorance. In material goodness, the senses still disturb. Thus the Lord remains unseen. In transcendental goodness (vasudeva-sattva), the senses are directly engaged in yoga (connection to Krsna). Thus the devotee sees Krsna directly. There is no sensual agitation, or in other words disturbance of passion and ignorance, on this platform.
(Text 232543) ----------------------------------------------
Text 265496 (19 lines)
From: (Bhakta) Maxim
(IC Moscow - R)
Date: 22-Dec-95 07:04
SWT
Refernce:
Text 232539 by Vrajendra Kumara (das) PVS (Vladivostok - R)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [430]
Subject:
------------------------------------------------------------
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
If you do not mind I’d like to comment on the quiestion raised by Vrajendre Kumar Prabhu regarding self-envy (sorry to bring it up again as the topic is so far behind.) If I am not mistaken - please correct me if I am wrong -- the word “envy” has two different meanings in English: 1) jealous attitude to other’s happiness or success (the usual meaning) and 2) animosity (that is more rare, and is more understandable in terms of self-envy, i.e. causing harm to oneself by being enimical to Krsna).
In Russian the two meanings merge together as the Russian word for “jealous attitude” does not have the second meaning whatsoever, only a tinge of. Maybe this is the cause of the confusion.
Please forgive me for rushing in where angels fear to tread.
Your unworthy servant
bh.Maxim
(Text 265496) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 265634 by Suhotra Swami
Text 265634 (16 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 22-Dec-95 11:12
SWT
Refernce:
Text 265496 by (Bhakta) Maxim (IC Moscow - R)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [432]
Cc: BBT Editing
[692] (sender: Govinda Madhava (das) HKS
(NE-BBT))
Subject:
------------------------------------------------------------
According to my big etymological dictionary, *envy* is traced to Latin *vide*, “to see.” *Vide* in turn is related to *Veda* (“I know,” originally “I see”). The word *inuidere*, to see intensely, based on *vide*, branches out from Latin into English as *envy*. *Induidere* actually has two forms that have given two words to the English language. From *inuidia* (noun) transformed to Vulgate *inveia* comes through Old French *envie* the English *envy*. From the adjective *inuidiosus* comes the English *invidious*. Anyway, the ultimate root is the Sanskrit *vid* (Veda is formed from this verbal root), from which we get so many Indo-European words, like *wisdom* in English, *wissen* in German, *veda* in Czech, the Greek *idein* which comes into many languages as *idea*, and so on. The essential semantic indication is the intense, antagonistic looking at some object. We know that original envy is of the living entity for Krsna. Krsna is the Self of our self. So the “original” original meaning of envy is to look antagonistically upon one’s own Self, Krsna.
(Text 265634) ----------------------------------------------
Text 234881 (21 lines)
From: Vijnana (das)
DDV (Athens - GR)
Date: 31-Oct-95 06:34
SWT
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [384]
Subject: the tree that
wasnt there because nobody saw it but was there because
------------------------------------------------------------
saw it
Please accept my humble obeisances. all Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
I was studying the second canto chapter 10 regarding how the virat purusa had the desire to speak then speech was manifest etc. I remember a class you gave in amsterdam a long time ago where you were speaking on this subject and mentioned a tree in oxford that had an inscription on to the effect that when noone is there to see it then the tree doesnt exist but that someone else put there that god is seeing it. Could you explain this philosophy that nothing exists if there is noone to see it and how to defeat it?
vijnana dasa
(Text 234881) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 234954 by Suhotra Swami
Text 234954 (27 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 31-Oct-95 08:20
SWT
Refernce:
Text 234881 by Vijnana (das) DDV (Athens - GR)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [385]
Subject: the tree that
wasnt there because nobody saw it but was there because
------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, there’s a story that on one day a long time ago (this may have even been back in the days of Bishop Berkeley) that someone pinned a note to a big tree in the center of the Quad (a square surrounded by university buildings) at Oxford. The note said something like,
“God must consider it exceeding odd,
If when there is nobody about in the Quad,
that this tree
continues to be.”
“Your statement is odd
For even when nobody in in the Quad
The tree continues to be
As seen by Me
Yours truly, God.”
The problem dealt with in the two letters is a problem of ontology, which deals with what is “out there” that we can know. The first letter argues that there is nothing “out there,” what we know is just our perceptions. And our perceptions are manufactured in our consciousness. More or less this is the doctrine of solipsism, that “I am the only reality.” The second letter argues that there is a reality “out there” that exists whether we perceive it or not. That reality exists within the perception of God.
(Text 234954) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 234967 by Suhotra Swami
Text 234967 (35 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 31-Oct-95 08:54
SWT
Refernce:
Text 234954 by Suhotra Swami
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [386]
Subject: the tree that
wasnt there because nobody saw it but was there because
------------------------------------------------------------
I looked at your question again and noticed you asked how to defeat solipsism. Here are two powerful arguments.
1. “My dear solipsist, you say my view of the world is wrong. But
if your view is that you are the only conscious being, then my opposing view is also your view, because according to you I don’t exist, only your own thoughts exist, like your thoughts of me and my arguments. So, why do you argue with yourself? If you do not agree with me on this point and continue to argue, then you contradict your claim that everything is just your own idea.”
(If you are trying to sell a solipsist a book, you can follow the above argument to this conclusion: “Here, it’s your idea to buy this book and take it home and read it from cover to cover very carefully.”
2. “My dear solipsist, thought on its own has no practical value in
helping you put any order to the experiences that make up what you suppose is your own private world. You have to take help from the theories and beliefs of science and common sense, which tell you that the world is not your own private idea, that it existed before your birth and will continue after your death. In coping with your experiences, you have to rely upon definitions and directions that entail the falsity of solipsism. Of course, you can reinterpret all this in terms of solipsism. But the fact remains that the knowledge you require to live in this world and deal with it does not come to you from solipsism (i.e. from persons, books, institutions, traditions, etc. that confirm that `all your perceptions and this information how to understand and deal with your perceptions are just your own idea’). Therefore your viewpoint is like a philosophical parasite whose life fully depends upon the life of another philosophy. How, then, can your philosophy be the real one?”
(Text 234967) ----------------------------------------------
Text 239890 (26 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 10-Nov-95 11:54
SWT
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [387]
Cc: (Bhakta)
Roland (NE-BBT) [290] (received:
12-Nov-95 17:48)
(sender:
Janaka Gauranga (das) JPS (NE-BBT))
Subject: The poem about
the tree in the Quad
------------------------------------------------------------
Vijnana das, in his most recent question, mentioned a philosophical poem about a tree in the Oxford Quad. In my answer I cobbled an approximation of the poem together, but (ta-ra!) here is the real thing, written by Robert Knox, as related in a book called *Learning to Philosophize* by E.R. Emmet.
The first part of the poem, representing solipsism, is:
There was a young man who said, “God
Must think it exceedingly odd
If he finds that this tree
Continues to be
When there’s no one about in the Quad.”
The second part, representing a refutation of solipsism based upon the philosophy of Bishop George Berkeley which Srila Prabhupada also agrees with (see *Dialectical Spiritualism* pages 215-216):
Dear Sir,
Your astonisment’s odd:
I am always about in the Quad.
And that’s why the tree
Will continue to be,
Since observed by
Yours faithfully,
God.
(Text 239890) ----------------------------------------------
Text 240222 (18 lines)
From: Gopinatha (das)
GKG (French BBT)
Date: 11-Nov-95 06:32
SWT
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [388]
Subject: Western
philosophers interested in vedic philosophy
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear suhotra maharaja,
PAMHO AGSP!
I am now working on a french publication and we would like to find more information about western philosophers interested in vedic philosophy.
We have information about Thoreau, Emerson, Hegel.
Amongst french writers there was Malraux, Romain Rolland and Lamartine who showed interest.
Can you please tell us about any other western personnalities who showed an interest to the vedas ??
I have heard that Einstein had an interest, but I do not have any exact quote from him.
Schopenhauer was interested in budhism, did he showed any interest in the vedic tradition also ??
(Text 240222) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 240427 by Suhotra Swami
Text 240427 (85 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 11-Nov-95 12:51
SWT
Refernce:
Text 240222 by Gopinatha (das) GKG (French BBT)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [389]
Cc: (Bhakta)
Roland (NE-BBT) [289] (received:
12-Nov-95 17:38)
(sender:
Janaka Gauranga (das) JPS (NE-BBT))
Subject: Western
philosophers interested in vedic philosophy
------------------------------------------------------------
About Einstein, if he had an interest in the Vedas, there is not much evidence of it, not as much as Oppenheimer, who knew Sanskrit and quoted the gita when the first A-bomb was tested. I believe Heisenberg read the Upanisads. But none of these guys are considered to be philosophers, Einstein included. They are physicists, mathematicians and scientists.
Schopenhauer mentioned the Vedas in his writings. It appears he was more interested in Buddhism, as you have noted. About other recent-era Western philosophers, I don’t know. There are some, like Berkeley and Heidegger for instance, who speculated in ways that resemble specific Vedic teachings about consciousness and the nature of being. But I am not aware of their directly giving credit to the Vedic scriptures for inspiring their speculations. Since I am currently preparing a book on Vedic answers to philosophical problems of knowledge, I’ve been reading texts on Western philosophy lately. One is a book called *The Existence of the World* by Reinhardt Grossmann. In a passage from this book, it becomes clear that Western philosophers have their own system of *neti-neti* speculation.
“Existence, according to our view, is not a category: it is not an individual thing, nor is it a property, nor is it a relation, etc. But this means that it does not have a categorial property. Nor does it form a category of its own. The entity *entity* is not green, it has no shape, it is not higher in pitch than anything, nor is it larger (in number) than something else, etc. etc. In short, the entity *entity* has no properties and stands in no relations to other things, or, as Hegel would say, it has no determinations. But this implies, according to Hegel’s line of reasoning, that pure being is absolute negation, since it is *not* this, that or the other.” (pages 123-124)
*Neti-neti* means, of course, “not this, not this.” The idea of pure being expressed here is an idea similar to impersonal Brahman. Perhaps Hegel borrowed this line of negative speculation from the jnana Upanisads, and thus by his writings imported it into European thought. In any case, negative impersonal speculation is now well-established in Western philosophy. Such a passage as that quoted above does not need to mean that Mr. Grossmann personally has been reading the Upanisads.
In contrast to this, there is a trend of recent-era Western philosophy called Personalism. The term was first used in the USA by Bronson Alcott in 1863 and in France by Charles Renouvier in 1901. The main features of Personalism are 1) the individual living entity is the primary reality, and 2) Theism, which as opposed to Deism, says that God is both the transcendental cause of the world *as well as* being the immanent divine presence throughout the world. According to Personalists, the main social task is not to change the world but to change the individual, to promote his personal self-perfection.
But I don’t find evidence of a direct connection between the European and American Personalists and Vedic personalism, although the philosophical principles are very similar. If you want to find out more about these Personalists, then investigate a journal called *Espirit*, founded in 1932, which propagated their message to the philosophical circles of France. I do not know if it is still in publication.
There is a definite relationship between ancient Greek philosophy and the Vedas. The oldest evidence of that relationship is traced in a book called *Early Greek Philosophy and the Orient* by M.L. West, published by the Clarendon Press at Oxford in 1971. Herein you will find details of how Vedic philosophy was utilized by Pherecydes, Anaxmander, Anaximenes, Heraclitus, Hesiod, Homer, Pythagoras, Anaxagoras, and Empedocles. This book is *very* interesting and practically unknown to ISKCON devotees, from what I have seen. And this is not a “New Age” book of pop-mysticism, but a serious scholarly book.
Plotinus (205-270 AD), who is the founder of neo-Platonic philosophy (which comes much later in history than the doctrines of the pre-Socratic Greek philosophers mentioned above, therefore Plotinus is not covered in West’s book), was also directly influenced by the Vedic knowledge. Plotinus’ guru was Ammonius Saccas, who is thought by some to have come from India. In fact Plotinus himself tried to go to India to study under great sages there. Neoplatonism greatly influenced Christian thought throughout the Middle Ages and Renaissance.
By the way, in my last text to Danda I wrote: “The second part, representing a refutation of solipsism based upon the philosophy of Bishop George Berkeley which Srila Prabhupada also agrees with (see *Dialectical Spiritualism* pages 215-216)”. I should clarify that I did not mean to say that Srila Prabhupada agrees *in toto* with Berkeley’s philosophy. He agrees with the portion of it that is dealt with in D.S. on pages 215-216 and expressed in the second part of the poem.
(Text 240427) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 240839 by Akincana Krsna (das) HKS (NE-BBT Polish)
Text 240839 (15 lines)
From: Akincana Krsna
(das) HKS (NE-BBT Polish)
Date: 12-Nov-95 06:55
SWT
Refernce:
Text 240427 by Suhotra Swami
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [392]
Cc: (Bhakta)
Roland (NE-BBT) [288] (received:
12-Nov-95 17:24)
(sender:
Janaka Gauranga (das) JPS (NE-BBT))
Subject: Western
philosophers interested in vedic philosophy
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Suhotra Maharaja,
let me add few words.
In the Western philosophical tradition there is a term “panentheism” (don’t confuse with ‘pantheism’). It comes from Greek language: pan= everything + en= in + theos= God. The term was popularize by K.Ch.F. Krauze in the 19th century as a result of study on Indian thought.
It brings ideas similiar to ours. The panentheists think
God is the only substance that exists, and although God includes the universe He doesn’t loose his personal separateness.
The creation exist entirely in God, but He transcends the creation. The panentheism has different versions and some of it’s proponents are or were: Plotinus, F.E.D. Schleiermacher, A.N. Whitehead, Ch. Hartshorne, Bierdiajev.
Interestingly, some Indologists use the very same term (panentheism) to describe the concept of ‘isvara’ in Vaisnava vedanta.
(Text 240839) ----------------------------------------------
Text 240451 (28 lines)
From: (Bhakta) Jan
Mares (NE-BBT Czech)
Date: 11-Nov-95 13:51
SWT
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [390]
Subject: Siva etc.
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Suhotra Maharaja,
Please accept my respectful obeisances.
Please let me ask you few questions:
1. What is the difference among Rudra, Siva and Sadasiva in relation
to bodily color? Siva is usually described and pictured as blue-red, or reddish (SB 3.14.25), but sometimes as white or golden (SB 5, cover;
2. In SB there are two seemingly contradictory verses regarding
the attitude of demigods towards devotees and their sp. advancement: positive (SB 1.19.18) and negative (SB 11.4.10).
Could you please reconcilliate them?
3. Srila Prabhupada says that the change of body at the time of death is
immediate (740407MW.BOM). What does this “immediate” mean?
4. What is the exact scriptual reference to our four reg. principles?
In Folio they are described as “vidhi” or “yama,” but I haven’t found any quotation. Are these principles the same in all sampradayas?
Your servant
bh. Jan
(Text 240451) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 240668 by Suhotra Swami
Text 240668 (75 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 11-Nov-95 20:13
SWT
Refernce:
Text 240451 by (Bhakta) Jan Mares (NE-BBT Czech)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [391]
Subject: Siva etc.
------------------------------------------------------------
1) The form of Siva who appeared from Brahma’s forehead is named Rudra. He is described as nila-lohitah, a mixture of blue and red (*Bhag* 3.12.7). More or less the same account appears in other scriptures like the Visnu Purana and other puranas, but in some of these accounts Rudra is described as having a bluish-white body. A way to reconcile this is to remember that these acts of Brahma’s creation take place at the beginning of each of his days; so with every new day, Rudra reappears, and not exactly in the same way and exactly in the same form as in other days. For instance, Mahabharata Vana Parva chapter 12 describes Rudra appearing from the forehead of Visnu when the Lord became angry with Madhu and Kaitabha’s harrassments of Brahma. Siva assumes different forms for different purposes; his pure white form indicates his function as the judge of all living entities at the time of cosmic devastation. In Santi Parva chapter 166, Lord Brahma says Siva changes his color from blue to red to white. Brahma-samhita 5.8 states, tal-lingam bhagavan sambhur jyoti-rupah sanatanah, “This halo [emanating from the plenary portion of Maha-Sankarsana] is divine Sambhu, the masculine symbol or manifested emblem of the Supreme Lord. This halo is the dim twilight reflection of the supreme eternal effulgence.” This “dim twilight reflection” is a golden color. This is the color of Sadasiva, or Sambhu.
2) Maya also means illusion and mercy. She tests the determination of the aspiring devotee as illusion, and she protects the devotees who have passed her test as mercy (daivi-prakrti). The demigods, who are the administrators of the material nature, have the same two-fold function in relationship with devotees.
3) Immediate means as soon as one departs from the gross body he is in another body, at least in the sense of being in the subtle body. To become a ghost after death means to not get another gross body right away, but still it means being in another body, the subtle body.
4) suta uvaca
abhyarthitas tada tasmai
sthanani kalaye dadau
dyutam panam striyah suna
yatradharmas catur-vidhah
Suta Gosvami said: Maharaja Pariksit, thus being petitioned by the personality of Kali, gave him permission to reside in places where gambling, drinking, prostitution and animal slaughter were performed. (Bhag. 1.17.38)
Dyutam means gambling, panam means drinking, striya means association with women and suna means animal slaughter. Where these four activities are performed, Kali resides, thus they are most sinful and are to be shunned by all devotees in all bona fide sampradayas.
“The four things are Kali’s disciple, friends. We have already discussed this. So one friend is this meat-eating problem, the butchers, Kali’s friends. And the liquor distiller. He’s also Kali’s friend. And the gamblers or the gambling house maintainer. And prostitute house maintainer. These are friends of Kali. Now you will find all over the world these things are very prominent. Clubs and butcherhouse and liquor house and gambling house. Therefore the whole atmosphere is Kali.” (SP SB lecture 1974)
Prabhupada: Bhaktivinoda Thakura has sung one... Ei ota kalir chela:
“Here is another disciple of Kali.” Nake tilaka galai mala. “He has got tilaka on the nose and mala, kanthi, also.” Sahaja bhajana kache mamu sange lana pare bhalo: “And he’s, he has become a Vaisnava by illicit sex.” This is stated by Bhaktivinoda Thakura. “Here is a Kali’s chela. He has dressed like a Vaisnava, but he is doing his bhajan with illicit sex.” Sahaje bhajana kache mamu sange lana pare bhalo. You know? There is a class of sahajiyas?
Bali Mardana: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes. Vaisnavas. Just like, dress like Rupa Gosvami, loincloth, and, but three dozen women behind him.
Bali Mardana: Yes, gopis.
Prabhupada: So Bhaktivinoda Thakura: “Here is a disciple of Kali. He has tilaka and he has kunti and he’s doing this nonsense.” Eita kalir chela. (SP morning walk July 13, 1974)
(Text 240668) ---------------------------------------------- Comments: Text 241010 by Narakara (das) HKS (Ljubljana)
Text 241010 (44 lines)
From: Narakara (das)
HKS (Ljubljana)
Date: 12-Nov-95 12:02
SWT
Refernce:
Text 240668 by Suhotra Swami
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [395]
Subject: Siva etc.
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Suhotra Maharaja, please accept my respectful obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Well, on reading bhakta Jan’s question regarding “scriptural references to our four regulative principles,” I immediatelly recalled one verse in connection:
loke vyavayamisa-madya-seva
nitya hi jantor na hi tatra codana
vyavasthitis tesu vivaha-yajna-
sura-grahair asu nivrttir ista
TRANSLATION: In this material world the conditioned soul is always inclined to sex, meat-eating and intoxication. Therefore religious scriptures never actually encourage such activities. Although the scriptural injunctions provide for sex through sacred marriage, for meat-eating through sacrificial offerings and for intoxication through the acceptance of ritual cups of wine, such ceremonies are meant for the ultimate purpose of renunciation. (SB 11.5.11)
Srila Prabhupada in one lecture comments:
In the sastra it is said, loke vyavayamisa-madya-seva nityas-tu jantor na hi tatra cadana. In the sastras, there is recommendation that “You can eat meat under certain certain condition. You can drink under certain conditions. You can marry, sex life, under certain conditions.” Loke vyavaya amisa madya-seva. Vyavaya means sex; and amisa means meat eating; and madya-seva, drinking, intoxication. So sastra says that “Everyone, every living entity, has got a general tendency for these things: sex life, meat-eating and drinking.” Then where is the need of sastric injunction? That sastric injunction is there not to encourage them, but to restrict them. In the human life, pravrttir esam bhutanam nrvttes tu maha-phalam.
You have got a tendency for sex life. Take for example. This is your tendency. But if you can check it, that is your success. Not that because you have got tendency, you have to increase it. That is not human civilization. Human civilization means we have got so many animal propensities, and if we can control them, that is advancement of human civilization. Just try to understand. Not that “Because I have got this tendency, let me increase it without any restriction.” That is not human civilization. (SB Lectures, 1.16.21, Hawaii, January 17, 1974)
Your servant Narakara das
(Text 241010) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 241132 by Suhotra Swami
Text 241132 (3 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 12-Nov-95 16:52
SWT
Refernce:
Text 241010 by Narakara (das) HKS (Ljubljana)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [397]
Subject: Siva etc.
------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, that is a useful quote also, which I too sometimes use in class, except that as an answer to this particular question, gambling is not mentioned. SB 1.17.38 mentions all four (un)regulative principles.
(Text 241132) ----------------------------------------------
Text 241011 (29 lines)
From: Narakara (das)
HKS (Ljubljana)
Date: 12-Nov-95 12:02
SWT
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [396]
Subject: 6 questions
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Suhotra Maharaja,
one question is puzzling me already for quite some time.
Naimisaranya to Suta Gosvami:
1. In the purport to SB verse 1.2.1:
“The sages of Naimisaranya asked Suta Gosvami six questions, and so he is answering them one by one.”
2. In Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Chapter Sixteen: “There were six questions put by the sages of Naimisaranya to Suta Gosvami, and Suta Gosvami explained or answered the SIX QUESTIONS in Srimad-Bhagavatam...”
3. Madhya 24.320p: “This verse from Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.1.23) was a question raised by all the sages, who were headed by Saunaka. This question put before the great devotee Suta Gosvami is the foremost of the SIX QUESTIONS raised. The answer to this important question is given in the next verse from Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.3.43).”
I was trying to extract all of them from the verses and translations in the first chapter of the first canto, but what I got out of it were always 7 or 8 questions...
Your servant Narakara das
(Text 241011) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 241133 by Suhotra Swami
Text 241133 (8 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 12-Nov-95 16:52
SWT
Refernce:
Text 241011 by Narakara (das) HKS (Ljubljana)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [398]
Subject: 6 questions
------------------------------------------------------------
1.1.11: What is the essential meaning of all revealed scriptures?
1.1.13: What are the teachings imparted by the acaryas concerning the
Personality of Godhead?
1.1.16: Who is not willing to hear these glories?
1.1.17-18: What are the activities of the Lord’s incarnations?
1.1.23: Who is presently protecting religious principles? (This is the
most important question.)
(Text 241133) ----------------------------------------------
Text 241216 (11 lines)
From: Jahnu (das) HKS
(Almvik - S)
Date: 12-Nov-95 19:05
SWT
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [399]
Subject: Alt.atheism
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Maharaja. please accept my humble obeisances.
I’m preaching to some atheists, and some of them have this idea, that any concept or idea which is not testable and falsifiable are to be rejected. They say that it is unreasonable to believe in God since the idea cannot be falsified.
Is there any sense in this? Isn’t it like saying that ignorance is superior to knowledge?
Ys. Jahnu das
(Text 241216) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 241241 by Suhotra Swami
Text 241241 (12 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 12-Nov-95 20:08
SWT
Refernce:
Text 241216 by Jahnu (das) HKS (Almvik - S)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [400]
Subject: Alt.atheism
------------------------------------------------------------
I’d start by asking them whether their idea that every idea must be falsified in order to be accepted is itself falsifiable. You will find out quickly that this is an axiom, an absolute principle--in other words, it is their own unquestionable holy atheistic Truth that lies beyond all reason.
This is the philosophical principle known as reflexivity. In mundane discourse, any “absolute” refutation of another position bounces (“reflexes”) back upon the refutor to refute his own position. Reflexivity is an invariable defect in all material ideologies.
Rascals.
(Text 241241) ----------------------------------------------
Text 242031 (13 lines)
From: Vijnana (das)
DDV (Athens - GR)
Date: 14-Nov-95 14:27
SWT
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [401]
Subject: Disciples going
to heavenly planets.
------------------------------------------------------------
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
In this mornings SB class the point arose about devotees aspiring to go to the heavenly planets. One devotee said that he had heard that Srila Prabhupada said that Most of his disciples would go to the heavenly planets. I have also heard that. But cannot remember where or from who. I remember hearing it a lot of times though. Do you know if Srila Prabhupada actually said that and where?
Vijnana dasa
(Text 242031) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 242485 by Suhotra Swami
Text 242485 (22 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 15-Nov-95 05:45
SWT
Refernce:
Text 242031 by Vijnana (das) DDV (Athens - GR)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [402]
Subject: Disciples going
to heavenly planets.
------------------------------------------------------------
I am not aware of that statement. You have Folio, so you can search for different combinations of words (disciple, heaven, ISKCON, heavenly, etc.) and see what you get. Even if you find something, there are other quotes which indicate otherwise. Finally, I can’t conceive why this statement, which even if true is obscure, is being given so much attention. Prabhupada once said that just as airplanes float in the sky because of the petrol in their tanks, so the earth also floats, and if all the petroleum is extracted from the earth it will fall, just as an airplane falls when it runs out of petrol. But shall we make this quote into a major issue that we present in public lectures? “Petrol gives floatation power, that is why airplanes fly and the earth is suspended in space.” Is this such a tattvic principle that we must make sure that all devotees and guests understand it? Bhagavad-gita says that devotees who do not perfect themselves will go to heaven, and then resume bhakti-yoga upon taking birth on earth again. That applies to certain cases; it is not a general principle that is to be preached in a way that will lead everyone to think, “Anyway, no matter how hard I try to become Krsna conscious, the chances are that I will go to the heavenly planets. So, why bother being so strict?” Just like in a certain case, Srila Prabhupada used the petrol flotation analogy. It is not a general principle to be applied everywhere.
(Text 242485) ----------------------------------------------
Text 242935 (9 lines)
From: Atmarama (das)
BVS (Skopje - Macedonia)
Date: 15-Nov-95 18:46
SWT
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [403]
Subject: The Calendar
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Suhotra Maharaja, please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
I’ve been invited by the Adventistic Church for a public discusion about the Calendar, as to why now it is 1995 AD, etc... I’m supposed to present the Vaisnava concept, but I must admit that I don’t know much. Could you perhaps explain a little about it?
Your servant
Atmarama das
(Text 242935) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 243080 by Suhotra Swami,
Text 244618 by Prithu (das) ACBSP
Text 243080 (8 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 15-Nov-95 21:34
SWT
Refernce:
Text 242935 by Atmarama (das) BVS (Skopje - Macedonia)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [404]
Subject: The Calendar
------------------------------------------------------------
I am sorry, but I can’t help you. If you wish more information about the Vaisnava method of calendar calculation, contact Markandeya Rsi das on COM. He is a member of this conference and will see your letter here. About the Adventist Church and why it is 1995, I am very happy to admit that I don’t know anything about this. If you find out more about it from somewhere else, please don’t put the info into this conference. If Markandeya Prabhu or anybody else in Danda is able to help Atmarama Prabhu, kindly send him a personal letter.
(Text 243080) ----------------------------------------------
Text 244618 (206 lines)
From: Prithu (das)
ACBSP
Date: 18-Nov-95 13:09
SWT
Refernce:
Text 242935 by Atmarama (das) BVS (Skopje - Macedonia)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [411]
Subject: The Calendar
------------------------------------------------------------
You say:
<< I’ve been invited by the Adventistic Church for a public discusion about the Calendar, as to why now it is 1995 AD, etc... I’m supposed to present the Vaisnava concept, but I must admit that I don’t know much. Could you perhaps explain a little about it? >> Well I may be able to fill you in with some news - hope nobody is on my case to mess up the conference with such a huge file:
The Calender is based on the date of birth of Jesus.
You should know that there are huge Problems with that. The fact is that the calculation of the Christian Era is not at all accurate and was not fixed until the sixths century. It is based on the rather unsound mathematical calculation of a certain monk Dionysus Exiguus in 533 A.D.
The specific day he sat aside was the day the Roman God Mithra who was worshiped as the saviour of Mankind. This day was also termed as ‘Dies Natalis Invict’, the day of the Unconquerable.
Besides that it was the day when acc. to Roman calculation the sun was born. This is in the middle of winter; surely not the season when ‘shepherds abide in the fields and watch over their flock at night.’ Rather during December Palestine is in the grip of frost. (Flocks are put to grass between the months of March and November.)
Besides, Matthew as much as Luke date the birth of Jesus as during the reign of Herod which lasted from between 39-4 B.C. That means Jesus must have been born at least FOUR YEARS BEFORE THE CHRISTIAN ERA to be in the lifetime of Herod the Great in the reign of Augustus.
On the other hand we know from the Gospels as much as from the Roman Historian Tacitus that Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate who governed Judea from 26-36 AD. (“Christus, from whom the name (of the Christians) had it’s origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberious at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate...” (Tacitus, Annals XV.44.3-8) Hippolytus (200 A.D.) states that Jesus suffered crucifixion in his thirty third year. He sets the date of Crucifixion as Friday, the 14th of Nisan (A.D.29) 1 If we try to harmonise this information with the reported events in Matthew (2:1-23) the birth of Jesus, the arrival of the Magi and the flight to Egypt all would have to have taken place in the last year of Herod’s life, 4 B.C.
This is not the only problem:
Matthew reports:
“...when Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi.”(Matthew 2:16).
This last sentence then rather seem to indicate that Jesus must have been born at least within the last two years of Herod’s reign which would place his birth at 5 or even 6 BC.
Consequently he either died in 28 or 27 BC with 33 years of age according to Hippolytos’ estimate of Jesus’ age at crucifixion or with 35 years if we are to maintain with Hippolytos the date of Crucifixion as Friday, the 14th of Nisan (A.D.29).
Whichever way we are to decide, in any case the present choice of the date of birth of Jesus as the beginning of the Christian era is by all accounts out of question and totally arbitrary.
If you try to determine the date of Jesus on the basis of the famous statement in Luke, namely that Joseph, Mary and Jesus went to Bethlehem to attend the Census of Quirinius, you open yet another Pandora’s box:
“... In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. (This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria.) And everyone went to his own town to register. So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David. He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to be married to him and was expecting a child. (Luke 2:1-5)
The fact is that Quirinius was not the Governor of Syria at that time (he went as a Legate to Syria only as late as 6 A.D.
The Governor was Varus.
If you try to do the same by using the star of Bethlehem, more trouble is ahead.
Whatever may be the case, the first part of Matthew, the report on the Magi from the East, following a star in the sky, has attracted the attention of astrologers of all times.
The German Astrologer Johannes Keppler observed on December 17th in 1603 a conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter in the constellation of Pisces. He recorded the same event in 6 B.C. and calculated that a similar constallation must have occured at 7 BC. Keppler found support for his theory in a jewish rabbinical reference to the Messiah appearing when Saturn and Jupiter were in conjunction in the constallation of Pisces.
Churchfather Origen was of the opinion, that the star of Bethlehem was actually a comet. Origen writes:
...”The star that was seen in the east we consider to have been a new star, unlike any of the other well-known planetary bodies, either those in the firmament above or those among the lower orbs, but partaking of I the the nature of those celestial bodies which appear at times, such as comets, or those meteors, which resemble beams of wood, or beards or wine jars or any of those names by which the Greeks are accustomed to describe their varying appearanccs. And we establish our position in the following manner. ....... but we have read in the Treatise on Comets by Cheaeremon, the Stoic that on some occasions also, when good was to happen, comets made their appearances; and he gives an account of such instances....” “Now I would say that with respects to comets there is no prophecy in circulation to the effect that such and such a comet was to arise in connection with a particular kingdom or a particular time; but with respect to the appearance of a star at the birth of Jesus there is a prophecy of Balaam recorded by Moses to this effect “ There shall arise a star out of Jacob, and a man shall rise up out of Israel.”And now, if it shall be deemed necessary to examine the narrative about the Magi, and the appearance of the star at the birth of Jesus, the following is what we have to say, partly in answer - to the Greeks, and partly to the Jews...” (Origin, Contra Celsum I,Ch 58-60, from Ante Nicene Father Vol II,p.422/43)
This statement compares well with the conclusion of the German Scholar Schnabel who, according to the positions of planets in the constellation of pisces fixed the year of 7 B.C. According to him in that year the well known Halley’s comet which reappears at an interval of 76 years was visible in the sky. According to that the appearance of a star guinding the magies seem to settle the year of birth for the year 7 B.C.
Edmund Halley discoversed 79 years later the comet of the same name. It was calculated that one of its periodic fly-pasts would have occured in 12 BC. There is an interesting statement in the Protoevangelium of James , 21 “...And he (Herod) examined the Magi, saying to them:” What sign have you seen in reference to the king the has been born?”
And the Magi said: “We have seen a star of great size shining among these stars and obscuring their light, so that the stars did not appear. And we thus knew that a king has been born to Israel and we have come to worship him. Protoevangelium of James , 21 ante nic Vol VIII, page 366 This statement could well support the opinion of David Clark of the Royal Greenwich Observatory, John Parkinson of Dorkin’s Mullard Space Science Laboratory and Richard Stephenson of Newcastle University who have offered an interesting theory: That the star of Betlehem was actually a Nova, visisble to the Chinese Astronomers of the Han dynasty for more then seventy days in 5 BC. The acceptance of these accounts would all place the birth of Jesus between 7 and 5 BC, that means 5 - 7 years off traget of the present calculation!!! That the Gospels in no way are historically reliable can be shown easily as follows:
Take for example the events preceding the birth of Jesus:
The only evidence we derive is based on the Gospels of Matthew and Luke in accounts, which are impossible to reconcile and in fact mutually excluding each other.
In Matthew Joseph is visited by an angle and NOT Mary while in Luke Mary is visited and NOT Joseph.
In Luke the divinity of Jesus is announced to shepherds by angels while in Matthew a star appears in the sky, an event which is entirely omitted by all other Gospels.
In Luke the shepherds of the fields of Bethlehem appear to adore the new-born child while in Matthew the Magi appear to worship Jesus. According to Matthew it appears that Joseph’s home is to be Bethlehem. From there he and his family flee to Egypt, based on a warning in a dream to Joseph while Herod, the Great, based on the evidence of the Magi is engaging himself in an extraordinary massacre of children, an atrocity which would not possibly have evaded the attention of the famous Historian Josephus, who reported on events of much lesser importance in Israel and of the ongoings at the court of Herod.
We do know however from Josephus that Herod was cruel (Antiquities XIV:11-16) and that killing of innocent children to destroy a possible pretender to the throne could not be considered out of character.
From Egypt then, a voyage according to Matthew predicted in the Old Testament (2:15), “Out of Egypt I called my son.” (Hosea 11:1), Joseph and his family, being “afraid to return” again due to another warning in a dream (2:22) “withrew to Nazareth” in fulfiment of the prophecy that “he would be called a Nazarene” (2:23), a prophecy impossible to substantiate from the Old Testament. Opposite to the tremendous disturbances accompanying the birth of Jesus in Matthew, in Luke the home of the holy family is Nazareth. From here Mary and Joseph set out to Bethlehem, to abide to a census of Augustus which is not mentioned in any of the other Gospels nor possible to corrobarate by contemporary sources (see p....).
They continue to journey to Jerusalem which would be according to the describtion in Matthew would have meant to enter the lions (Herod’s) den, presented there the child in the temple and returned to Nazareth (2:39) where they lived in peace.
Hence scholars in generally and since long have suggested that the events described above might not be taken to be actually historical but rather to serve as embelishments or as constructions to fulfil predictions from the Old Testament and to substantiate the Messianic claims of Christianity in particular.
Further idications of contradictions:
The Genealogy accounts of Jesus’ descent:
If Jesus was to be the Messiah he would appear in Betlehem. He needed to be a descendent of the house of David.
In that sense one would think the extensive efforts to establish the genealogy of Jesus in both Luke and Matthew are to be understood, which are again not recorded in Mark and John.
Not are both geneologies proposed by Luke and Matthew not in agreement with each other. Even if they were, the problem is that the whole genealogcal section of the two gospels which aims to present the pedigree descent of Jesus from the house of David David fails to do so being at variance with the virgin birth accounts. It traces the ancestry of Joseph, while the whole point of the Virgin Birth report of Jesus is that not Joesph but the Holy Spirit is the father of Jesus.
This as far as the Gospel research as far as the birth of Jesus is concerned.
If you study the empty grave reports, again:
you will find four Gospels reporting four stories not just contradicting put completely excluding each other.
Conclusion:
Take it from me who is working since years on a (forthcoming) book concerning these matters:
If you want to be frustrated, try to establish the historical Jesus. Based on the Christian scripture it is simply impossible.
The Gospel accounts are reliable neither historically nor sound theologically.
(see Srila Prabhupada ‘s purport to Mahaprabhu’s discussion with the Kazi)
He saved us from being Christians.
Gracious God would we be in trouble.
your servant
Prithu das Adhikary
PS
Kindly do NOT to use the above rough excerps of my forthcoming publication for publishing purposes.
I be willing though to enter into further discussions on the subject.
-----------------------------------------------------
1 Encyclopedia Brittanica 11Ed. Vol.II,p.891
(Text 244618) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 244757 by Suhotra Swami,
Text 245265 by Atmarama (das) BVS (Skopje - Macedonia)
Text 244757 (4 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 18-Nov-95 19:23
SWT
Refernce:
Text 244618 by Prithu (das) ACBSP
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [413]
Subject: The Calendar
------------------------------------------------------------
Before I did say that this question should not be answered here, but Prthu Prabhu’s answer is so full of interesting details that who could complain. Rather than complain, all the Danda-ites are shouting for more!
(Text 244757) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 247378 by Prithu (das) ACBSP
Text 245265 (10 lines)
From: Atmarama (das)
BVS (Skopje - Macedonia)
Date: 19-Nov-95 20:44
SWT
Refernce:
Text 244618 by Prithu (das) ACBSP
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [414]
Subject: The Calendar
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Prithu Prabhu, please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Thank you for the information. I will certainly use them. But I also need to know the Vaisnava calculation. I remember reading in CC that now we are in the Sakabda era, and also Srila Prabhupada mentions some Bengal year. What is the principle of those calculations? I know that for us the Gaurabda ic accuret.
What about the four yugas? I remember reading in Vedic Cosmograpfy... that there are some calculations that Kali-yuga started 3102 BC, so is there some some conection?
(Text 245265) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 247384 by Prithu (das) ACBSP
Text 247378 (407 lines)
From: Prithu (das)
ACBSP
Date: 23-Nov-95 11:32
SWT
Refernce:
Text 244757 by Suhotra Swami
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [415]
Subject: The Calendar
------------------------------------------------------------
<< Before I did say that this question should not be answered here, but Prthu Prabhu’s answer is so full of interesting details that who could complain. Rather than complain, all the Danda-ites are shouting for more!
All right, I am enthused and sufficiently tempted to let more of the cat out of my bag:
Here we go:
It is very clear acc to scholarship that CHRISTIANITY IS THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS ACCORDING TO PAUL.
Paul actually re-defined Christianity, to be precise.
While it is fair to say that Paul deserves praise for saving the teachings of Jesus to end in the bhauma ijya-dhih provincialism of James, Peter and the rest of the original disciples in Jerusalem (who were not able to see Christianity go beyond a reformed Judaism) Paul unfortunately did not stop there but incorporated various definitely non-sanatan-dharma elements into his preaching for which there is no authority acc. to standard spiritual knowledge, Torah or Veda.
Foremost: the whole Soteriology of Christianity - The Salvation though the cross concept (A concept which of course Srila Prabhupada totally rejected.)
Bombay April 2,1977:
Tamala Krishna: He says, “What is the actual meaning of the sacrifice of the cross, Jesus dying on the cross?”
Prabhupada: IT HAS NO MEANING.
The people were so rascal that they attempted o kill him. Because he was speaking of God. So we can understand the pollution of the then society, how intelligent they were. He had to deal with such rascals that he was speaking about God and the result is that they wanted to kill him first. He preached, “Thou shalt not kill,” and they killed him first. This is their intelligence. Now people are advanced.
THOSE DOCTRINES, THEY ARE NOT... (indistinct). THAT’S ALL.
(just see how precisely Srila Prabhupada captured the point/ pda)
Tamala Krishna: He says, “Did Jesus died on the cross to redeem all the sins of the world?”
Prabhupada: This is another sinful thought—Jesus has taken contract for ridding your sinful activities.(!!!)
That’s a plea, what is called plea for the sinners, that they will continue acting sinfully, and Christ will take contract to counteract. This is most sinful conviction. Instead of stopping sinful activities, we have given contract to Jesus Christ to counteract it.
Tamala Krishna: So these people are not actually getting free of their sins unless they stop sinning.
Prabhupada: Then what is the use of his preaching? They will continue sinful activities, and Jesus Christ will take contract for saving them. How nonsense idea this is! Bhavananda, do you think it is good idea?
Bhavananda: Not a good idea, Srila Prabhupada .
Prabhupada: Nonsense rascals. These people should be immediately hanged. “Our religion is very good.” What is that? “We cannot stop acting sinfully, and Christ has taken contract. He will save us.”
How rascaldom it is! Namno balad papa-buddhi. Nama-aparadha. “I am chanting Hare Krishna, so no sinful action will be.” It is like that. That means “I will continue my sinful activities and become a Christian, become a Vaishnava, become a chanter.”
Tamala Krishna: Nama-aparadha.
And as this were not enough, later Srila Prabhupada puts all this in writing in a letter to Francois Pierre:
“The answers to your questions are as follows:
1) Yes, the message of Jesus is universally applicable. Why not? Jesus says, ‘Thou shalt not kill.’ This is applicable to all.
But all Christians are violating this law. So where is a Christian?
In my opinion there is not a single Christian.(!!!!!)
Do they follow all ten commandments?
2) We accept Jesus Christ as shaki avesa avatar, an empowered incarnation of God.
3) The Bible should be accepted literally and not symbolically.
There is no symbolical meaning of the sacrifice on the cross. (!!!!!) The people were so rascal. They attempted to kill him because he was speaking of God. We can understand the position of that society.
He had to deal with such rascals. He preached ‘Thou shalt not kill,’ and they killed him.
The argument that Jesus died to redeem us of sins is simply another sinful argument. (!!!!!)
That Jesus has taken contract to redeem your sins is simply a plea of the sinners. They continue sinning and expect Christ to take the contract to freedom. It is most sinful. Instead of actually stopping sins, they contract with Jesus Christ.
These people should be immediately hanged.
4) Regarding Christ coming again, for the time being, you follow his instructions. Then if he comes it will be all right. Regarding the position of our movement if Christ were to come again, that we shall see when he comes. ‘The end of the world’ means that the world will be devastated. Just like you have a body and it will be finished, similarly the whole world body will be devastated. Creation, maintenance and annihilation. Nasha in Sanskrit means devastated.
Last:
5) “There is no difference between a pure Christian and a sincere devotee of Krishna......”
In the same vain the Last Supper is actually described in its EARLIEST ACCOUNTS in Paul’s letter to the Corintians only.
It is therefore ante-dating the Gospel narrations by four decades and due to the development of a Christianity acc to Paul it found it’s way into the Gospel accounts by the pious scribes.
In that sense it is noteworthy that this last Supper described in the Gospels was NOT celebrated in the original Church of Jerusalem or anywhere else in the Ur-kirche.
Here is the original paulinic account, note specifically the first sentence:
“... For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you:
The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.”
In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” (1 COR 11:23-25)
Historically then there are three stages in the development of Christianity which will, when clearly understood, will give us the basic understanding of the Christian phenomena:
The first stage is being Jesus and the twelve, the whole itinerant traveling and preaching phase with “look at the birds in the sky, they do not sow and do not reap etc., the Sermon of the Mount etc., thou shall love they Lord etc. and become as perfect as your father is perfect.
Change of heart is at the basis of these teachings, leave the world behind, let the dead bury the dead...
It is the “Wander Radicalismus” of the Unmarried, roaming the country and preaching to repent and to love God with all thy soul.
Predictably this lead to considerable tensions with the Sekten Experten of the Jewish Orthodoxy and ultimately paved the way to cross. Those were the early days...
The next phase is the after Easter phase:
The Jerusalem Church around James and Peter, now often married and settled, who tried to come to terms with the Jesus experience and his unexpected crucifixion acc. to their capacity and who acc. to my understanding quite didn’t get it. Vaishnavera kriya mudra.
The difference to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is that he had highly elevated and learned men around him to preserve his teachings.
Here we have fishers, simple men.
However, these men, while not perceiving the teachings of Jesus BEYOND the Torah were serious devotees, adhering to ascetic practices and Vegetarianism (inconceivable that they would not have been taught this by Jesus himself - “no servant is greater that his master”)
These were the puritans, later condemned as fanatics and finally declared heretical in their succeeding movements as Ebionites and Nazarites (all Vegetarian).
It is most significant that they described Paul as the first Christian Apostate (that means who fell from the faith)
They were for at least twenty years heavily embroiled in fighting with Paul and followers and ultimately lost the battle.
Due to their Jewish-ness they would acc to scholars have participated in the Rise of all of Israel in rise against the Romans.
Consequently they would have not survived the ensuing massacre of the entire city of Jerusalem in 7o AD.
There are description of a flight to Transjordania, pella though. But these people were scattered, all information about them are distorted and possibly destroyed by later Christian fanatics.
Only AFTER all that all 4 Gospels were compiled...
Paul and his followers make up the next phase of Christian development. Different from the original disciples of Jesus Paul was an intellectual, the first Theologian, well trained, according to him trained at the feet of the famous Pharisaic teacher and scribe Gamaliel (Acts 22:3, this report is by the way is doubted by scholars).
Naturally in comparison to him the Jerusalem community was no match.
He had no proper concepts of the teachings of Jesus either (having never met Jesus except as described by Paul himself in his encounter on the Road to Damascus (which is impossible to verify and I cannot help to have some doubts about)
And even if he met Jesus, the instructions from him are very different from what he must told the other apostles.
Hence the controversy.
Like everyone else he is similarly on the bodily platform by all accounts, and being trapped in the thought patterns of his Pharisaic upbringing (who were by the way the only Jewish sect which believed in the RESURRECTION of the dead , - hence hardly any traces are left in the later Gospels of reincarnational concepts and the resurrection of the flesh is prominently featured) Let us not forget that the Pharisees Sect were not exactly the target of Jesus’ adoration.
Paul would define now Christianity according to his realization. It is indicative that he does not at all dwell in all of his writings on the historical Jesus or his sayings like one would expect from him (like we say Srila Prabhupada said this and Srila Prabhupada said that). Indeed there are hardly a handful of references to the historical person. Rather he goes to work with expounding his own philosophy which acc to his own writings are unacceptable by the direct followers of Jesus.
At the heart of it all is the idea of the Salvation coming from the cross. It is the cross which becomes the climax event from now on, providing the Salvation of men.
Acc to the Torah crucifixion of a person actually points to the divine damnation of the victim.
“.. If a man guilty of a capital offense is put to death and his body is hung on a tree, 23 you must not leave his body on the tree overnight. Be sure to bury him that same day, because anyone who is hung on a tree is under God’s curse.” (Deuteronomy 21:22-23)
Paul rationalized that Jesus surviving crucifixion shows that he actually dislodged the Torah and it’s teaching.
By the death of Jesus and his Resurrection the Torah had become irrelevant and the end the old covenant of Moses had come:
“...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” (Roman 3:23-25)
“ For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.
This of course is a whole step further from the teachings of Jesus who, see above declared the Torah not irrelevant (for the general public) but rather pointed towards the fulfillment of the Torah in pure Bhakti:
“...’Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS HANG ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS. (!!!)” (Matthew
22:37-40)
Jesus thus spoke the truth when he said that in Bhakti the Torah was fulfilled:
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.” (Matthew 5:17)
Praise the Lord.
But for Paul the teachings of Jesus, the Jesus of History was practically irrelevant.
Rather the cross, that very thing which brought about in the past condemnation now provided Salvation of mankind and inaugurated a new age.
Not deeds were yielding salvation (Like in the old Jewish religion), (and true:
sanatan dharma is not the ascending path) but only faith in Jesus crucified, dying for our sins and resurrected on the third day.
Christianity was invented and is based on this crucial error.
As Paul was preaching in the Greco-Roman world (where Savior Gods were en vogue, dying on behalf of their followers) this concept fell on most fertile grounds.
Indeed as I have pointed out in Text 242539 of this conference, the specific day sat aside as Christmas is actually the birth day of the Roman God Mithra who was worshipped as the savior of Mankind. This day was also termed as ‘Dies Natalis Invict’, the day of the Unconquerable.
So my understanding now of all this is:
Paul and James/Peter’s party had poor understanding of the transcendental message of Jesus - both being on the bodily platform.
The Jerusalem Church deviated, regressing to a certain degree into Judaism after the demise of the master.
Paul who, differently from them, understood the message of Jesus to be universal speculated wildly.
He threw out the Torah, lock stock an barrel, and concocted various elements (also deification of Jesus) which are based on authority neither of the Torah nor Veda.
(After all why should God be on the mental platform, that here somebody had to die on the cross for our sins while 5000 years before Krishna clearly declared aham tvam sarva papebhyoh mohshayishyami etc.
Even Vasudeva datta was not allowed to take the sins of the universe..
Both parties became clearly renegade, asara, like the followers of Advaita’s or Bhaktisiddhanta’s.
(I mean if Srila Prabhupada declared the Gaudya Math practically asara in CC, and they do follow the regulated principles, and know the siddhanta of our philosophy then what to speak of physically unclean meat eating Christians.)
It is all very clear.
However all three phases of developments of Christianity left definite traces in three clearly visible successive strata of the Gospels.
We have to remember that the oldest Christian documents are the Epistles of Paul from 55 AD, 2 ½ decades before the earliest Gospel accounts. Hence it’s influence can be felt throughout the Gospels.
In other words all the Gospels, beginning with Mark (being written in the pagan Rome and remote from the Jewish environment earliest 70 AD to John 120 AD were clearly written IN HINDSIGHT, reverberating Paul’s conclusions.
.
(Biography anyway means history in the North, fiction in the South, Omission in the West while in the East prominence is given to persons and/or concepts presenting the interest of respective groups in the back ground.)
Among the 3 basic strata of narrations in the Gospels only the first strata is the Jesus tradition with its basic sanatan dharma tenets.
Only residues of reincarnational teachings survived later “harmonisers” and “pious scribes”.
Rather the resurrection of the dead is prominently featured.
This oldest strata reveals abhorrence of the temple sacrifices. I don’t buy neither the fish nor the flesh of it, and not just because of being inconsistent with Vaishnava teachings.
Because the second phase of Christianity presents James and Peter clearly as Vegetarian (I will show that in my publication in the later writings of the fathers of the Church).
They had no faith in the concept of salvation coming from the cross (see Letter of James, possibly not by James himself but breathing his spirit), they knew Jesus better than that.
And it’s absolutely amazing that Paul actually tells it himself:
“...One man’s faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables...” (Roman 14:2)
The smoking gun is right there: Paul’s concept of faith in the salvific nature of the cross, declaring the Torah obsolete and viewing the Vegetarianism of the apostles possibly as dietetic Fanatacism of nazarene jewish origin culture justifies the eating of flesh.
First at least in the back room:
“...It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall. (Roman 14:21) which later is reflected in Timothy:
“... They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving...” (1 Timothy 4:3-4)
Consequently the teachings of the Apostles in Jerusalem (James, Peter which Paul sarcastically describes as “those Superapostles”, “those reputed to be the Pillars” etc., (there is a whole barrage on my file of abuse as far as the original disciples is concerned) are not what Paul is overly concerned with.
And so he tells his followers:
“.. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. (2 Cor 11:4)
Conclusion:
All three movements, the original Jesus movement, James and Peter and the rest in Jerusalem (who regressed partially into Judaism exactly like sentimental Hare Krishna devotees who can’t quite get over their Christian background and finally Paul have left their definite imprint on the Gospels. And so you have actually three strata of teachings.
This of course is the reason for all the confusion that brakes out if you seriously start comparing the Gospel accounts, and therefore, the Gospels acc to Christian teachings being divinely inspired, the holy spirit manages at times to speak out of 4 sides of his mouth simultaneously, leaving the befuddled reader with 4 totally different and often mutually excluding each other reports.
Jerusalem fell in 70 AD and with it perished the Jerusalem church (whose survivors fled acc to Epiphanius to Pella and up to the forth century were Vegetarians, with their own Vegetarian Gospel, declaring the animal sacrifices of the temple being terminated by Jesus’ teachings and ... condemning Paul as the first Christian Apostate.
They remained small and insignificant, a small group of puritans, crying in the desert.
Paul’s party, being a success in the Greco-Roman world with its pagan element of a savior God became the successor of the teachings of Jesus by default.
Heresy became orthodoxy - Orthodoxy became Heresy.
“...Two thousand years passed, but you could not accept the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ. And you are all claiming that you are Christian. When did you accept Christianity? That is my question. Because you have disobeyed the order of Christ. So when did you accept? Two thousand years passed. Hmm? Who will answer this question?...” (Srila Prabhupada / May 9/75 Perth)
All Glories to His Divine Grace, who by his transcendental realization was able to reach through 2000 years of history to see pepples of gold in the sand of that religion.
ys pda
The publication I am working on in this regard is conceived as a preaching tool towards the outside world.
It’s also intended to help to devotees all over the world to get rid of their mental hung ups about Christianity. It will establish the Vaishnava teachings as Supreme and will establish Jesus as a vaishnava preacher.
I am not so concerned with the Jesus went to India lore as this will just take the focus away from the thrust of the book as shown above.
However I do have still some cards up my sleeve in this regard and promise some surprise when all goes well with the return of a certain Tibetan Lama to India from Tibet/now China when all goes well this summer.
The world may be in for a surprise, and sorry, no, I can’t let anybody in on this right now.
The Bhavishya Purana accounts I am not so sure about.
We need a Bhavishya Purana ante-dating the arrival of the British to counter the insertion claims of Western scholars.
But there IS one intriguing thing I have not seen in any of the “Jesus went to India” literature and which I came across only accidentally while studying the accounts of the Churchfather Ireneaus in the Harvard University library:
It says there, hold your breath:
“Despite the heresy of it, the early church father, Irenaeus, testified to reports coming from those he trusted in Asia that Jesus had reached old age while still being a teacher.”
What a stunt of this servant of yours!
I appreciate any input by all of you as already begun by Bhakta Jan Mares.
(Text 247378) ----------------------------------------------
Text 247384 (13 lines)
From: Prithu (das)
ACBSP
Date: 23-Nov-95 11:32
SWT
Refernce:
Text 245265 by Atmarama (das) BVS (Skopje - Macedonia)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [416]
Subject: The Calendar
------------------------------------------------------------
<< I also need to know the Vaisnava calculation. I remember reading in CC that now we are in the Sakabda era, and also Srila Prabhupada mentions some Bengal year. What is the principle of those calculations?
I know that for us the Gaurabda ic accuret.>>
I have no idea.
<<What about the four yugas? I remember reading in Vedic Cosmograpfy...
that there are some calculations that Kali-yuga started 3102 BC>>
Thats what the kami’s may say. I have seen that too in writing.
We don’t accept that.
ys pda
(Text 247384) ----------------------------------------------
Text 243101 (20 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 15-Nov-95 23:13
SWT
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [405]
Subject: St. Odran’s
report from beyond
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There is a most interesting account of early Christian history involving two saints, Odran and Columba. In AD 536, St Columba established a church at Iona. Desiring that the church be protected, Columba came up with the idea to perform a human sacrifice (!). His associate St Odran volunteered to be the victim. He was buried alive by Columba’s men. Later Columba had the grave opened, and Odran was found to be alive. He reported that he’d had a look into the afterlife, and saw “The saved are not forever happy, the damned are not forever lost.” St Columba, fearing that Odran was speaking heresy, ordered his men to bury him again.
This is no joke, it is traditional Church history. And it shows that in the early days of the Church there was an understanding that both heaven and hell are not eternal situations for the spirit soul. But this understanding was covered up by the official party line that sinners go to hell forever and the pious enjoy in heaven forever.
Very interesting.
(Text 243101) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 244085 by BMD
Text 244085 (2 lines)
From: BMD
Date: 17-Nov-95 13:09
SWT
Refernce:
Text 243101 by Suhotra Swami
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [408]
Subject: St. Odran’s
report from beyond
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(Text 244085) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 244320 by Suhotra Swami
Text 244320 (7 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 17-Nov-95 19:59
SWT
Refernce:
Text 244085 by BMD
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [409]
Subject: St. Odran’s
report from beyond
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From the context of the article I found this story in, it seemed that Iona is an island. Might be a Greek island. But the article did not give a geographic reference.
Perhaps somebody can look it up in an encyclopedia or something like that and let you know, by private letter that is. I’d do it but my encyclopedia set is all packed away in boxes.
(Text 244320) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 244617 by Prithu (das) ACBSP
Text 244617 (14 lines)
From: Prithu (das)
ACBSP
Date: 18-Nov-95 13:09
SWT
Refernce:
Text 244320 by Suhotra Swami
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [410]
Subject: St. Odran’s
report from beyond
------------------------------------------------------------
Good to have Microsoft Bookshelf / CD.
It says:
“IONA island, 3.5 mi (5.6 km) long and 1.5 mi (2.4 km) wide, NW Scotland, one of the Inner HEBRIDES. Tourism is the main industry. The island is famous as the early center of Celtic Christianity. In 563 St. COLUMBA founded a monastery there and spread Christianity to Scotland.” ys Pda PS This place is NOT to be mistaken by the Ionian Islands, which ARE near Greek as Suhotra M. proposed:
“Ionian Islands, A chain of islands of western Greece in the Ionian Sea. Colonized by the ancient Greeks, the islands subsequently came under the rule of Rome, Byzantium, Venice, France, Russia, and Great Britain before being ceded to Greece in 1864.”
Bookshelf is a must.
(Text 244617) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 244756 by Suhotra Swami
Text 244756 (1 line)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 18-Nov-95 19:23
SWT
Refernce:
Text 244617 by Prithu (das) ACBSP
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [412]
Subject: St. Odran’s
report from beyond
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Thank you very much!
(Text 244756) ----------------------------------------------
Text 243918 (35 lines)
From: (Bhakta) Jan
Mares (NE-BBT Czech)
Date: 17-Nov-95 09:50
SWT
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [406]
Subject: Manu-samhita
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Dear Suhotra Maharaja,
Please accept my respectful obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
SB 7.8.48p.: “The Manus compiled the Manu-samhita.”
Later in the same purp.: “Manu gave the law known as Manu-samhita(...).”
· From the first quote it seems that there are more Manus involved.
· From the context of the second quote it appears that the author is Vaivasvata Manu, which is also confirmed in 740218BG.BOM.
· According to SB 8.1.16 and 710406LE.BOM itself the author is Svayambhuva Manu.
In the first quoted purport SP says, “The conclusion is that if we want real peace and order in the human society, we must follow the principles laid down by the Manu-samhita and confirmed by the Supreme Personality of Godhead.”
On the other hand I heard that SP said to his grhastha disciples in Italy (who wanted to live according to M-s) that they will not be able to follow it because they are low-born. He also supposedly said that if we touch M-s we’ll fall lower than mlecchas.
Text 244030 (30 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 17-Nov-95 12:02
SWT
Refernce:
Text 243918 by (Bhakta) Jan Mares (NE-BBT Czech)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [407]
Subject: Manu-samhita
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This is a hobby-question, isn’t it? It doesn’t make any difference to anyone’s Krsna consciousness, nor to the ISKCON mission, which Manu is the author of the Manu-samhita.
Svayambhuva Manu (who is also known as Manavacarya) is traditionally credited with authorship of Manusmrti. But since Manu is a post, not a specific person, and since the post is that of the “law-giver of mankind,” it is not an unusual state of affairs for the law be re-given or appended by a Manu after Svayambhuva Manu. Just like, though the Constitution of the US was written in 1789 by the so-called Founding Fathers like Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, it was amended by lawgivers of later generations. The amendment passed after the death of Franklin Delano Roosevelt in 1945 limiting the president to two terms in office was certainly not written by the Founding Fathers. But it is still part of the US Constitution.
With a little bit practical knowledge, and applicative intelligence, these hobby-questions answer themselves.
Regarding your second question, Manusmrti is the dharma-sastra for Varnasrama society. Nectar of Devotion is the dharma-sastra for ISKCON society. Nana-sastra-vicaranaika-nipunau sad-dharma-samsthapakau lokanam hita-karinau tri-bhuvane manyau saranyakarau. These lines from Srisadgosvamyastakam answer your question in full, but the short answer is that the Manusmrti principles are contained in the NOD principles. Just like the principles of the Codes of Hammurabi are contained in modern European-American legal codes. Not in detail, but in spirit. To say in 1995 that “I don’t care for modern codes of law, I will follow the ancient Codes of Hammurabi” is the program of the knucklehead.
(Text 244030) ----------------------------------------------
Text 257647 (22 lines)
From: (Bhakta) Jan
Mares (NE-BBT Czech)
Date: 08-Dec-95 16:48
SWT
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [417]
Subject: Prapatti
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Dear Maharaja,
Please accept my respectful obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
In the course about 4 sampradayas I’ve found following description:
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Prapatti:
Visistadvaita philosophy discusses besides Bhakti `prapatti’ or absolute self surrender to God as an alternative means to `moksa’. Bhakti is a rigorous discipline, and for those, who are incapable of undertaking it, `prapatti’ is advocated as an alternative easy path to `moksa.’ This doctrine is adopted on the strength of the teachings contained in the Vedas as well as the Itihasas, Puranas, and Pancaratra literature.
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Could you please elaborate on this subject?
Is it anything similar to what some Christians advocate (“only faith”)?
Thank you
ys bh. Jan
(Text 257647) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 258055 by Suhotra Swami
Text 258055 (11 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 09-Dec-95 10:36
SWT
Refernce:
Text 257647 by (Bhakta) Jan Mares (NE-BBT Czech)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [424]
Subject: Prapatti
------------------------------------------------------------
From what I know about Sri Ramanujacarya’s life and teachings--and I don’t claim to be an authority--the concept of prapatti refers to the surrender of a person of a low background (non-brahmana) to the Lord and His pure devotee. The practice of bhakti-yoga referred to is that which is done by brahmanas as they serve the Deities in the temple. Famous instances of prapatti are seen in the lives of the Alvars, the 12 transcendentalists whose teachings form the foundation of the Sri Sampradaya doctrine. About whether this has anything to do with the Christian “only faith” idea, well, that’s a dogma. Prapatti is not a dogma opposed to other dogmas. Prapatti is a way for persons who are unqualified to do Deity worship to take complete shelter of the Lord.
(Text 258055) ----------------------------------------------
Text 257719 (8 lines)
From: Radha Vinoda
(das) BVS (Sofia - BU)
Date: 08-Dec-95 18:34
SWT
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [418]
Subject: CHALLENGING
QUESTIONS
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Dear Suhotra Swami, please accept my humble obeisances! all glories to Srila Prabhupada!
As uoy know my wife is corresponding with some people here.
Here is an interesting question, which appears in a letter:
“But now I would like to ask some quest. but becouse they are many and long I’ll ask one quest. in every one my letter.”
.......CONTINUES
(Text 257719) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 257721 by Radha Vinoda (das) BVS (Sofia - BU)
Text 257721 (12 lines)
From: Radha Vinoda
(das) BVS (Sofia - BU)
Date: 08-Dec-95 18:35
SWT
Refernce:
Text 257719 by Radha Vinoda (das) BVS (Sofia - BU)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [419]
Subject: CHALLENGING
QUESTIONS
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So, I hope it might become an interesting for you diskussion. Further:”...I would like to have an EXAKT and argumented answer.So, here is my quest: In “Krisna book” it is said that king Ugrasena had 10 quadrillion soldiers as personal guards. Isn’t it an fantasmagory meant for simple people, because we can see how the things realy are: the number 10 quadrilion, according to USA and ex-USSR standards is 15 10x10 . So we can see the area needed for such a number people. 2 2 If we accept that on 1m . we can have 5 persons, than on 1km . we can have 5 000 000 people.Thus we can calculate that the area needed for
........ CONTINUES (Text 257721) ---------------------------------------------- Comments: Text 257726 by Radha Vinoda (das) BVS (Sofia - BU)
Text 257726 (15 lines)
From: Radha Vinoda
(das) BVS (Sofia - BU)
Date: 08-Dec-95 18:44
SWT
Refernce:
Text 257721 by Radha Vinoda (das) BVS (Sofia - BU)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [420]
Subject: CHALLENGING
QUESTIONS
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8 2
1 quadrilion people is 20x10 km . We can easely calulate
2 2
the area of the planet. it is S=4x3.14xR , so it is 4x3.14x6371 =
8 2
5x10 km . Above we calculated that for 1 quadrilion soldiers is needed
8 2 8 8
20x10 km . From this two numbers: 5x10 and 20x10 we see that only
for 1 quadrilion people we need 4 times the area of the earth. WHAT
15
ABOUT 10 QUADRILION ? And WHAT IF WE ACCEPT AS A QUADRILION NOT 10
24 but 10 because this is the real mathemathical meening of this number.
It shows me that if there is one fantasmagory then everything else is
.......CONTINUES
(Text 257726) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 257727 by Radha Vinoda (das) BVS (Sofia - BU)
Text 257727 (15 lines)
From: Radha Vinoda
(das) BVS (Sofia - BU)
Date: 08-Dec-95 18:45
SWT
Refernce:
Text 257726 by Radha Vinoda (das) BVS (Sofia - BU)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [421]
Subject: CHALLENGING
QUESTIONS
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fantasmagory ( I will show in my further letters that it is not only one )..
.
But I don’t want some abstract answer. Example: When Jean Klod Karier - french writer - asked Sankaracarya why Krisna is disturbed on the battlefiel d Kuruksetra, He didn’t know what’s happening - Why, He is a God? The answer w as:
“It Is a human’s weakness to think in this way” This kind answering doesn’t
answer the question........ Yours sencerely: Eni” (male)
Dear Maharaja,I see that it is a quite technical question, but the questioner wants the technical answer. Please answer if you find it interesting. I’ll send the following questions, if there are some.
YS RVd ....... end.
(Text 257727) ---------------------------------------------- Comments: Text 257749 by Jahnu (das) HKS (Almvik - S)
Text 257749 (10 lines)
From: Jahnu (das) HKS
(Almvik - S)
Date: 08-Dec-95 20:06
SWT
Refernce:
Text 257727 by Radha Vinoda (das) BVS (Sofia - BU)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [423]
Subject: CHALLENGING
QUESTIONS
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Sorry to bud in. Sada Puta das suggests the following:
I paraphraze: This planet doesn’t even have space enough to hold all soldiers of King Ugrasena’s life guard if we they are given a space of two square meters each but since they live in Dvaraka which is Krishna’s transcendental dimension, which is unlimited, there is no problem of missing space. The problem is resolved when we accept that the ordinary three dimensional model is put out of function when it comes to Krishna’s transcendental pastimes which don’t necessarily take place in mere three dimensions.
(Text 257749) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 258056 by Suhotra Swami
Text 258056 (11 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 09-Dec-95 10:36
SWT
Refernce:
Text 257749 by Jahnu (das) HKS (Almvik - S)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [425]
Subject: CHALLENGING
QUESTIONS
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Yes, Jahnu Prabhu is correct, in that unless one is prepared to admit the inconceivability of Krsna’s pastimes, there is no answer to this question. She is trying to make the display of the Lord’s opulence into a mathematical question, but Radhavinoda Prabhu, you should not let her do this. Do not try to answer in the same way, because mathematics does not have the answer. Mathematicians are confused about the problem of infinity: for instance, numbers are for counting things, and you can only count finite things, yet mathematicians imagine that there are infinite sets of numbers. So what does that mean practically? How can this be explained? It cannot be. What to speak of explaining Krsna’s pastimes in terms of mathematics.
(Text 258056) ----------------------------------------------
Text 257745 (19 lines)
From: Kamalavati (dd)
SS (Radhadesh - B)
Date: 08-Dec-95 19:53
SWT
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [422]
Subject: a few questions
about the soul & the subtle body
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Dear Guru Maharaja,
Pamho! Agtsp!
Kadamba Kanana pr was describing in his morning class the different tortures the yamadutas afflict upon the sinful jivas. It was said that although thier intenstines are taken apart & similar other things happen to them they don’t die because they are in thier subtle bodies. As far as I know the subtle body consistes of mind, intelligence and false ego so I couldn’t quite understand where are these intenstines to be found? Is the subtle body exactly like the grosse material body the only difference being that it is subtle? I find all this rather bewildering - Guru Maharaja, can you please kindly explain it?
The question was also raised : “What is the form of the soul?” It is said that the form of the soul is cad-cid-ananda-vigraha or eternal. Why is it said then that in the prossess of devotional service we develop our spiritual bodies? What does the soul look like in the material body? What I understood from the class is that the ordinary conditioned soul in the material world is in a kind of a seed form. If it is like this does it mean that its eternal form is temporarily covered?
yhs
(Text 257745) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 258057 by Suhotra Swami
Text 258057 (17 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 09-Dec-95 10:36
SWT
Refernce:
Text 257745 by Kamalavati (dd) SS (Radhadesh - B)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [426]
Subject: a few questions
about the soul & the subtle body
------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, the subtle body is make of mind, intelligence and false ego, and what is false ego? It is the identification with the gross body. So the subtle body fits the gross body like a hand fits the glove. In India, mystic yogis in places like Rishikesh can roll their intestines around in their bellies by their mental control over their physical bodies. So how could they do that if the subtle body was not connected also to the intestines? Again, another example. Why are we shocked and disgusted by the sight of the insides coming out of a gross body? Because of a conception programmed into the mind that this is horrible. The mind *identifies* with the internal organs, in the rasas of shock and horror. Therefore intestines are “in the mind,” and the Yamadutas are so expert they can pull them out of the mind.
The soul looks like a spark, 1/10 000 the size of the tip of a hair. The form of a tree lies in potential within the seed, similarly the spiritual form of living entity lies in potential within the spirit spark.
(Text 258057) ----------------------------------------------
Text 262442 (14 lines)
From: Kamalavati (dd)
SS (Radhadesh - B)
Date: 16-Dec-95 18:35
SWT
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [427]
Subject:
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subj Returning to the abode of the Lord without a change of body Dear Guru Maharaja, Pamho! AgtSP!
I was very surprised to read in SB 1.15.47-48 that “the Pandavas, being completely washed of all material contamination, attained that abode in their very same bodies”. In the purp SP writes “According to Srila Jiva Gosvami, a person freed from the three modes of material qualities,..., and situated in transcendence can reach the highest perfaction of life without change of body.” I was so surprised to read this because we hear so many times a day that we are not the body. Moroever so many pure devotees in our parampara for exemple were defenitly free from “the three modes of material qualities” but still we know that they have their eternal form in the spiritual world. Guru Maharaja, can you please kindly explain this?
yhs
(Text 262442) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 262552 by Suhotra Swami
Text 262552 (12 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 16-Dec-95 21:41
SWT
Refernce:
Text 262442 by Kamalavati (dd) SS (Radhadesh - B)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [428]
Subject:
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First thing is, you have to be prepared for events in the lila of the Lord and His devotees that are completely outside of your power of understanding. Then, one conclusion we are obliged to draw here is that the “bodies” of the Pandavas are actually their own transcendental siddha-deha forms. Just as Krsna appears and disappears in His own form, coming to the material world and leaving it without changing His body, so also do His eternal associates like the Pandavas. That it indicates they became free of the modes of nature is a lesson for us, just like Arjuna’s “falling into Maya” on the battlefield of Kuruksetra is a lesson for us. But all this is happening under the direction and protection of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
(Text 262552) ----------------------------------------------
Text 265495 (20 lines)
From: (Bhakta) Maxim
(IC Moscow - R)
Date: 22-Dec-95 07:04
SWT
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [429]
Subject: Jaya and Vijaya
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Dear Suhotra Maharaja,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
While reading Srimad Bhagavatam I came across one interesting statement in 8.21.16-17. This is a description of a fight between Lord Vamanadeva’s associates and Bali Maharaja’s demoniac soldiers. But among other associates of the Lord, Jaya and Vijaya are listed that is quite surprising, since they were supposed to be somewhere in material world by that time, having already taken birth once as Hiranyaksa and Hiranyakasipu. The later was the great-grandfather of Bali Maharaja. And they the two still had two more births in the material world ahead to go through. How was it possible for them to act in the meanwhile as the Lord’s associates? Were they some other Jaya and Vijaya (may be there are many on Vaikuntha)?
Thank you very much beforehand
Your unworthy servant
bh.Maxim
(Text 265495) ----------------------------------------------
Comments: Text 265633 by Suhotra Swami
Text 265633 (15 lines)
From: Suhotra Swami
Date: 22-Dec-95 11:12
SWT
Refernce:
Text 265495 by (Bhakta) Maxim (IC Moscow - R)
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [431]
Subject: Jaya and Vijaya
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One thing we should learn as devotees. As soon as our minds start to think, “How is this possible” in connection with the lila of the Lord and His devotees, we should become very conscious of our insignificance. But still, we should try to understand and not be blind followers, so the question is good. Among the associates mentioned are Nanda and Sunanda. But they are not the Nanda (Maharaja) and Sunanda Gopa of Goloka Vrndavana. They are another Nanda and Sunanda from Vaikuntha. There are other examples of residents of different regions in the spiritual sky sharing the same names. There is a cowherd body named Arjuna, different from the Arjuna of the Bhagavad-gita, for instance. There are countless Vaikuntha planets with countless doorkeepers, servants, associates, etc. Lord Vamana has His own planet. It is not indicated anywhere that the 4 Kumaras visited Vamana-loka. So . . . I believe the answer is quite clear by now.
(Text 265633) ---------------------------------------------- Comments: Text 266445 by (Bhakta) Maxim (IC Moscow - R)
Text 266445 (6 lines)
From: (Bhakta) Maxim
(IC Moscow - R)
Date: 23-Dec-95 17:51
SWT
Refernce:
Text 265633 by Suhotra Swami
To: (Have) Danda
(Will Travel) [433]
Subject: Jaya and Vijaya
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my humble obeisances.
Thank you very much for the explicit answer.
Your servant
bh.Maxim
(Text 266445) ----------------------------------------------